The Elsmar Cove Wiki More Free Files The Elsmar Cove Forums Discussion Thread Index Post Attachments Listing Failure Modes Services and Solutions to Problems Elsmar cove Forums Main Page Elsmar Cove Home Page
Go Back   The Elsmar Cove Forum > ISO (International Organization for Standardization) Standards > ISO/TS 16949 - International Automotive Quality Systems Standard
Forum Username


Search the Elsmar Cove
Custom Search
Monitor the Elsmar Forum
Follow Marc & Elsmar
Elsmar Cove Forum RSS Feed  Marc Smith's Google+ Page  Marc Smith's Linked In Page   Marc Smith's Elsmar Cove YouTube Page  Marc Smith's Facebook Page  Elsmar Cove Twitter Feed
Elsmar Cove Groups
Elsmar Cove Google+ Group  Elsmar Cove LinkedIn Group  Elsmar Cove Facebook Group
Sponsor Links





Donate and $ Contributor Forum Access

Click the graphic above.
Courtesy Quick Links

Links that Elsmar Cove visitors will find useful in your quest for knowledge:

Howard's
International Quality Services
Marcelo Antunes'
SQR Consulting
Bob Doering's
Correct SPC - Precision Machining

NIST's Engineering Statistics Handbook
IRCA - International Register of Certified Auditors
SAE - Society of Automotive Engineers
Quality Digest Portal
IEST - Institute of Environmental Sciences and Technology
ASQ - American Society for Quality
Reply
 
Thread Tools Search this Thread Rate Thread Content Display Modes
  #1  
Old 15th June 1999, 12:20 AM
Roger Eastin Roger Eastin is offline
An Original Cover!

 
Registration Date: Dec 1998
Location: Greenville, SC
 
Posts: 471
Thanks Given to Others: 0
Thanked 8 Times in 8 Posts
Karma Power: 111
Karma: 65
Roger Eastin has less than 100 Karma points so far.
"Release" of TR16949

I was talking to a colleague last week about the release date of TR16949. I told him that the last date I saw was 1/1/05 and he said that didn't suprise him. He said that not only TR16949, but IS09000:2000 were being delayed (at least in part) by legal questions - liability, mostly. Apparently, legal questions are being raised about using language such as continuous improvement. The issue is whether a company is tied legally to continuous improvement if they bring it up in procedures. Can a customer sue a company for saying they do continuous improvement, but an audit (for instance) indicates a noncompliance in this area? They said they are doing continuous improvement, but don't show adequate evidence of it. My colleague said that's one hang-up with ISO standards - what are the ramifications legally for documenting something like continuous improvement? (Since ISO900:1994) does not mention continuous improvement, apparently it is safe!) As if the standards business wasn't tough enough without the legal stuff...

Sponsored Links
  #2  
Old 15th June 1999, 01:41 AM
Howard Atkins's Avatar
Howard Atkins Howard Atkins is offline
Forum Administrator

 
Registration Date: Jul 1997
Location: Revivim, Israel
 
Posts: 2,905
Thanks Given to Others: 146
Thanked 974 Times in 501 Posts
Blog Entries: 8
Karma Power: 400
Karma: 7779
Howard Atkins is appreciated, and has over 1700 Karma points.Howard Atkins is appreciated, and has over 1700 Karma points.
Howard Atkins is appreciated, and has over 1700 Karma points.Howard Atkins is appreciated, and has over 1700 Karma points.Howard Atkins is appreciated, and has over 1700 Karma points.Howard Atkins is appreciated, and has over 1700 Karma points.Howard Atkins is appreciated, and has over 1700 Karma points.Howard Atkins is appreciated, and has over 1700 Karma points.Howard Atkins is appreciated, and has over 1700 Karma points.Howard Atkins is appreciated, and has over 1700 Karma points.Howard Atkins is appreciated, and has over 1700 Karma points.Howard Atkins is appreciated, and has over 1700 Karma points.Howard Atkins is appreciated, and has over 1700 Karma points.
Send a message via Skype™ to Howard Atkins
Ok, but QS uses continuous improvement. Where do we stand?
Anyone

------------------
Sponsored Links

  #3  
Old 15th June 1999, 09:35 AM
Roger Eastin Roger Eastin is offline
An Original Cover!

 
Registration Date: Dec 1998
Location: Greenville, SC
 
Posts: 471
Thanks Given to Others: 0
Thanked 8 Times in 8 Posts
Karma Power: 111
Karma: 65
Roger Eastin has less than 100 Karma points so far.
I must admit that when it comes our sue-happy culture, I don't know what happens next. It would seem that QS9000 would also be a "tool" for law suits. Anyone heard anything else?
  #4  
Old 16th June 1999, 02:19 PM
Roger Eastin Roger Eastin is offline
An Original Cover!

 
Registration Date: Dec 1998
Location: Greenville, SC
 
Posts: 471
Thanks Given to Others: 0
Thanked 8 Times in 8 Posts
Karma Power: 111
Karma: 65
Roger Eastin has less than 100 Karma points so far.
I think the issue of continuous improvement litigation belong more to ISO9000:2000 than to TR16949. However, because TR16949 is an ISO document, it is getting caught in the whirpool of ISO9000:2000 - at least that is what I hear from my sources. Anyway, the point is that TR16949 has been held up for some time. According to the BSI webpage, it is held up until 1/1/2005. That is the only place where I've seen a date associated with TR16949. Now getting back to your argument about what people sue over - this is the country where someone sued a lawnmower company for an injury they sustained while trying to use the lawnmower as a hedge trimmer and WON! (They won because they said that nowhere on the lawnmower did it state that it could not be used as a hedge trimmer!!) That kind of litigation is pretty scary! And at least for the time being, ALM, you should not wait to get registered to TR16949, so go ahead for QS9000 (I saw your message in the QS9000 forum!)
  #5  
Old 17th June 1999, 12:48 AM
ALM
Unregistered Guest

 
 
Posts: n/a
In spite of our sue-happy culture, I cannot imagine the "legal ramifications" of such.

We are talking CQI, here and exactly who is going to sue whom and over what measures?

Forgive my sarcasm but, the quality of my product may be in the toilet (for now) but if I have demonstrated improved preventative maintenance and machine uptime, have I not provided evidence of CQI? In the same situation, haven't I identified an area (toilet-quality) that is an opportunity for future improvement?

Who exactly is going to sue because I claim CQI, but their product stinks? I would think that I would be sued first of my crappy product not meeting required specs than for claiming that I perform CQI and cannot substantiate it is some, even many instances.

ALM
  #6  
Old 18th June 1999, 09:41 AM
Roger Eastin Roger Eastin is offline
An Original Cover!

 
Registration Date: Dec 1998
Location: Greenville, SC
 
Posts: 471
Thanks Given to Others: 0
Thanked 8 Times in 8 Posts
Karma Power: 111
Karma: 65
Roger Eastin has less than 100 Karma points so far.
Apparently, all that had to be done to get TR16949 going again was for me to post a topic here about how it is going to be delayed!! I just received a copy of ActionLine from AIAG yesterday where they list on page 14 (albeit, in sketchy form)some details of the launch of TR16949. If I understand the 2nd bullit correctly (from the top of the page), the launch should take place 7/1/99. (I still wonder, though, how this will be affected by the arguing going on with ISO9000:2000.) You can order TR16949 documents (including the standard itself) from AIAG at (248)-358-3003. It is interesting to note that none of the Japanese automotive makers are listed among those accepting registration to TR16949. I expect, though, the Nissan will follow soon because they are a part of Renault now and Renault is listed as one of those ones accepting TR16949 registration. The saga continues....(where's Obi-Won-Kenobi when you need him).
Reply

Lower Navigation Bar
Go Back   The Elsmar Cove Forum > ISO (International Organization for Standardization) Standards > ISO/TS 16949 - International Automotive Quality Systems Standard

Do you find this discussion thread helpful and informational?


Bookmarks


Visitors Currently Viewing this Thread: 1 (0 Registered Visitors (Members) and 1 Unregistered Guest Visitors)
 
Thread Tools Search this Thread
Search this Thread:

Advanced Forum Search
Display Modes Rate Thread Content
Rate Thread Content:

Forum Posting Settings
You may not post new threads
You may not post replies
You may not post attachments
You may not edit your posts

BB code is On
Smilies are On
[IMG] code is On
HTML code is Off


Similar Discussion Threads
Discussion Thread Title Thread Starter Forum Replies Last Post or Poll Vote
Final Release Responsibilities - Separate responsibility for the release of a product Denis ISO 9000, ISO 9001, and ISO 9004 - Questions and Discussions 9 29th June 2010 07:33 PM
Engineering Drawing Pre-Release/Advance Release Process COM_DC Documentation Control Systems, Procedures, Forms and Templates 5 6th November 2009 03:42 PM
Batch or Lot release in to market - Need product release procedure class08820 Documentation Control Systems, Procedures, Forms and Templates 3 16th March 2009 02:14 PM
Existing TR16949 Threads Marc ISO/TS 16949 - International Automotive Quality Systems Standard 0 22nd May 1999 01:12 AM
TR16949 or QS-9000? prsykes QS-9000 - American Automotive Manufacturers Standard 5 6th April 1999 05:09 PM



The time now is 02:15 AM. All times are GMT -4.
Your time zone can be changed in your UserCP --> Options.


   


Marc Timothy Smith - Elsmar.com
8466 LeSourdsville-West Chester Road, Olde West Chester, Ohio 45069-1929
513 341-6272