|
Elsmar Cove Forum Sidebar
|
|
|
|
Monitor the Elsmar Forum
|
| Monitor New Forum Posts
|
|
Follow Marc & Elsmar
|
|
|
Elsmar Cove Groups
|
|
|
Sponsor Links
|
|
|
|
|
|
Donate and $ Contributor Forum Access
|
 |
|
Sponsored Links
|
|
|
|
Courtesy Quick Links
|
 Links that Elsmar Cove visitors will find useful in your quest for knowledge:
Howard's International Quality Services
Atul's Symphony Technologies
Marcelo Antunes' SQR Consulting
Bob Doering's Correct SPC - Precision Machining
NIST's Engineering Statistics Handbook
IRCA - International Register of Certified Auditors
SAE - Society of Automotive Engineers
Quality Digest Portal
IEST - Institute of Environmental Sciences and Technology
ASQ - American Society for Quality
|
|
 |
|

6th May 2008, 04:29 PM
|
|
Involved in Discussions
Registration Date: Oct 2007
Location: USA, California
|
|
Posts: 51
Thanks Given to Others: 8
Thanked 0 Times in 0 Posts
Karma Power: 28 Karma: 10 
|
|
How to calculate MTBF of a system based on subcomponents
To provide better detail, our company has bid our product for a potential government contract. Their response has requested a MTBF of the system. I have the following questions?
1. If our product is a protoype, can a MTBF been performed?
2. Without official tests can MTBF be calculated?
3. If I have the MTBF data from our suppliers for subcomponents, what is the easiest way to calculate and combine these values to represent the system?
I can do the simple math of MTBF, but how can I compile these to reflect a system MTBF?
Thanks!
|

6th May 2008, 09:18 PM
|
 |
Super Moderator
Registration Date: Jun 2002
Location: Lawn Guyland
Age: 62
|
|
Posts: 3,547
Thanks Given to Others: 71
Thanked 717 Times in 442 Posts
Karma Power: 413
|
|
|
Re: How to calculate MTBF of a system based on subcomponents
Quote:
In Reply to Parent Post by JkelleyCDS
To provide better detail, our company has bid our product for a potential government contract. Their response has requested a MTBF of the system. I have the following questions?
1. If our product is a protoype, can a MTBF been performed?
2. Without official tests can MTBF be calculated?
3. If I have the MTBF data from our suppliers for subcomponents, what is the easiest way to calculate and combine these values to represent the system?
I can do the simple math of MTBF, but how can I compile these to reflect a system MTBF?
Thanks! 
|
MTBF is a statistical prediction and actual performance may never match the prediction. Find yourself a copy of mil-hdbk-217 to do the system prediction.
__________________
Al
|
|
Thanks to Al Rosen for your informative Post and/or Attachment!
|
|

16th February 2010, 07:04 PM
|
|
Involved in Discussions
Registration Date: May 2009
|
|
Posts: 25
Thanks Given to Others: 0
Thanked 9 Times in 8 Posts
Karma Power: 19
|
|
|
Re: How to calculate MTBF of a system based on subcomponents
Quote:
In Reply to Parent Post by JkelleyCDS
To provide better detail, our company has bid our product for a potential government contract. Their response has requested a MTBF of the system. I have the following questions?
1. If our product is a protoype, can a MTBF been performed?
2. Without official tests can MTBF be calculated?
3. If I have the MTBF data from our suppliers for subcomponents, what is the easiest way to calculate and combine these values to represent the system?
I can do the simple math of MTBF, but how can I compile these to reflect a system MTBF?
Thanks! 
|
The characteristic life parameter can not be added, from components, to determine system performance...but the reciprocal (hazard rate) can. So, add the hazard rates then determine the life parameter with this resulting number.
|
|
Thanks to janedoe for your informative Post and/or Attachment!
|
|

16th February 2010, 07:54 PM
|
 |
Forum Moderator
Registration Date: Apr 2002
Location: Greater Milwaukee area, Wisconsin
|
|
Posts: 3,109
Thanks Given to Others: 557
Thanked 1,718 Times in 1,103 Posts
Karma Power: 389
|
|
Re: How to calculate MTBF of a system based on subcomponents
Quote:
In Reply to Parent Post by janedoe
The characteristic life parameter can not be added, from components, to determine system performance...but the reciprocal (hazard rate) can. So, add the hazard rates then determine the life parameter with this resulting number.
|
To clarify:
- Lambda = 1 / MTBF
- Lambda System = Lambda component 1 + Lambda component 2 + Lambda component n
- MTBF System = 1 / Lambda System
__________________
"A fool can learn from his own experiences; the wise learn from the experience of others." - Democritus, 460-370 B.C.
|
|
Thanks to Miner for your informative Post and/or Attachment!
|
|

2nd March 2010, 04:32 AM
|
 |
Involved in Discussions
Registration Date: Oct 2009
Location: Singapore
|
|
Posts: 11
Thanks Given to Others: 6
Thanked 9 Times in 7 Posts
Karma Power: 16 Karma: 55 
|
|
|
Re: How to calculate MTBF of a system based on subcomponents
1. Yes
2. Yes but they would only be Predictions (which may or may not satisfy your customer)
3. Yes but ...
Change MTBF (in hrs) to Failures In Time (number) by
Failures In Time = Time Period / MTBF
for MIL-217F, Time Period is 10^6 hrs.
for SR-332, Time Period is 10^9 hrs.
Add all FITs together,
Use same formula to calculate system level MTBF.
FITs (and therefore MTBFs) are also dependent on operating and environmental conditions. So you need more than just a single MTBF from your supplier.
Regards.
Last edited by danwsc; 2nd March 2010 at 04:51 AM.
|
|
Thank You to danwsc for your informative Post and/or Attachment!
|
|

5th March 2010, 07:01 AM
|
|
Willy Grunfeld
Registration Date: Jul 2005
Location: Israel
|
|
Posts: 215
Thanks Given to Others: 18
Thanked 64 Times in 51 Posts
Karma Power: 54
|
|
|
Re: How to calculate MTBF of a system based on subcomponents
All of the previous answers you got are correct, however all assume that its an electronic system for which the exponential distribution is a good assumption. If however your system includes mechanical assemblies this may no longer be correct
__________________
Willy Grunfeld
RAMSQ Consultant
|
|
Thank You to w_grunfeld for your informative Post and/or Attachment!
|
|

5th March 2010, 09:28 PM
|
 |
Forum Moderator
Registration Date: Apr 2002
Location: Greater Milwaukee area, Wisconsin
|
|
Posts: 3,109
Thanks Given to Others: 557
Thanked 1,718 Times in 1,103 Posts
Karma Power: 389
|
|
Re: How to calculate MTBF of a system based on subcomponents
Quote:
In Reply to Parent Post by w_grunfeld
All of the previous answers you got are correct, however all assume that its an electronic system for which the exponential distribution is a good assumption. If however your system includes mechanical assemblies this may no longer be correct
|
Excellent point that we all overlooked.
__________________
"A fool can learn from his own experiences; the wise learn from the experience of others." - Democritus, 460-370 B.C.
|

12th May 2010, 04:26 PM
|
 |
Shy Poster (1 to 5 Posts)
Registration Date: May 2010
Location: Albuquerque, NM
|
|
Posts: 4
Thanks Given to Others: 2
Thanked 2 Times in 1 Post
Karma Power: 13 Karma: 20 
|
|
|
Re: How to calculate MTBF of a system based on subcomponents
Depending on how the reliability of each component affects the others in the system as a whole may have an effect on the expected MTBF. In this case Reliability Block Diagrams (RBD) or Fault Tree Analysis may lead to a useful predictive answer to an overall MTBF. Pardon me as I cannot yet post links. Try searching for Reliability Block Diagram on Google or Wikipedia to get an idea of what this method provides.
There are also software packages that can be used for RBD simulation, the user can create one and assign failure and repair rates to the individual components and get an answer for Availability/MTBF of the system based on a simulated amount of time such as expected life or proposed deployment of a system. Relevant applications include:
ARINC Raptor
Relex OpSim
Reliasoft BlockSim
|
|
Thank You to vetes for your informative Post and/or Attachment!
|
|
Lower Navigation Bar
|
|
|
Do you find this discussion thread helpful and informational?
|
Visitors Currently Viewing this Thread: 1 (0 Registered Visitors (Members) and 1 Unregistered Guest Visitors)
|
|
|
| Thread Tools |
Search this Thread |
|
|
|
| Display Modes |
Rate Thread Content |
Linear Mode
|
|
Forum Posting Settings
|
You may not post new threads
You may not post replies
You may not post attachments
You may not edit your posts
HTML code is Off
|
|
|
|
|