Is it Compulsory to complete Management Review before Stage 1 Audit?

[Bob the QE]

We are preparing for our pre-assessment and stage 1 review and part of our preparation is to conduct an internal audit including an opening and closing meetings. Our auditor has expressed a need for us to hold a management review prior to the pre-assessment visit. He is sighting 5.6.1 as the requirement and I am not getting the connection. We had just held QMS Management Review (against our ISO registration) in July and have a second one planned for December. Does anyone have any insight as to why we would need this management review prior to a pre-assessment and how this ties to 5.6.1?

Thanks in advance.

[Marc]

Management Review is not against the ISO 9001 requirements. The contents required in a Management Review are related to inputs from your business processes.

I suggest you search here for Management Review example form or related threads.

[Colin]

I don't know AS 9100 too well but I know that ISO 9001 does not say that you must conduct a management review prior to assessment. However, it is often a contractual requirement between you and your Registrar/CB, as is the requirement to conduct your internal audits.

Like all processes, you need to demonstrate that it is working and that means conducting a review in this case.

[Bob the QE]

In Reply to Parent Post by Marc

Management Review is not against the ISO 9001 requirements. The contents required in a Management Review are related to inputs from your business processes.

I suggest you search here for Management Review example form or related threads.

Marc,

Thanks for the info, but I am not sure I understand your post. management review is called for in 5.6.1 of ISO and AS. So why are you saying it isd not against an ISO Requirement, there is even a record requirement. Maybe I missed your point, if so accept my appologies. Also I tried the search and came up with no info and I tried to post this into the AS section but maybe it made into the general post area. If oops on m y part.

Thanks ah=gain

[Bob the QE]

In Reply to Parent Post by Colpart

I don't know AS 9100 too well but I know that ISO 9001 does not say that you must conduct a management review prior to assessment. However, it is often a contractual requirement between you and your Registrar/CB, as is the requirement to conduct your internal audits.

Like all processes, you need to demonstrate that it is working and that means conducting a review in this case.

I may agree if it is in the contract (I have looked once and couldn't find it) but my question is has anybody had this type of direction applied by a registrar against the standard? I should clarify the point that this is an AS registration upgrade from ISO. We do conduct closing meetings after all internal audits so that we can answer any questions the auditees may have as well as identifying corrective actions that will result from any findings. Would you say this meets the aforementioned "management review". I could argue that in fact it does, because by conducting a complete system audit we are in fact meeting all requirements called for in 5.6.1. Agree?

[Marc]

In Reply to Parent Post by Bob the QE

Marc,

Thanks for the info, but I am not sure I understand your post.

Can you attach a copy of your management review form for us to look at? It sounds like they're one and the same. Does your auditor recognize this? Has s/he seen your current management review minutes? If it's ongoing, and the content requirements for AS9100 are met, I see no issue.

[Colin]

I don't agree that reviewing the results of internal audits constitutes a management review. It is one of the elements required but I doubt that it addresses all of the requirements of 5.6.2.

Having said that, I have not seen what is covered so I may be wrong on that.

[Bob the QE]

Enjoying the insight I have been given so far and I have taken Marc's suggestion and attached the matrix we use as the record for management reviews. I have taken out some sensitive details so it may not be much help, but maybe you can get the flavor. In response to Mr. Colbert, if our internal audit covers the entire QMS and in doing so we address the elements in 5.6.1 and thus report on the status of this element, aren't we then addressing these requirements. An exampl, if we find during the audit that the quality objectives do not support the quality policy and make that a finding are we accomplishing the same review as management review? We are reporting the results (positive or negative) to the upper management at the closing meeting, so why they are not doing the review they are provided the review results only from a 3rd party.