MSA (Measurement Systems Analysis) - Where to begin when setting up a system?

[rangerboat72]

I am looking to start up an MSA program where I work and have no clue as to how and where to begin.

If anyone has any documentation they would like to share or expertise in this matter I would appreciate your assistance...

[howste]

Hi Rangerboat, and welcome to the Cove!

Hopefully you have the MSA manual from AIAG? I would probably start with R&R studies. Search the forums here and you'll have plenty of reading on the topic.

[justncredible]

Provide more details?

For what process?

Where are you at now, and where do you think it needs to be?

[rangerboat72]

In Reply to Parent Post by howste

Hi Rangerboat, and welcome to the Cove!

Hopefully you have the MSA manual from AIAG? I would probably start with R&R studies. Search the forums here and you'll have plenty of reading on the topic.

I do have the MSA Manual from AIAG. I've got tons of spreadsheets and the like. My main thing I guess is how often (annually, bi-annually) it should be done and how to keep track of what has been done and what needs to be done.
I'll keep searching...

[rangerboat72]

In Reply to Parent Post by justncredible

Provide more details?

For what process?

Where are you at now, and where do you think it needs to be?

Well, our QE's handle the majority of the GR&R's in the mfg. environment. I guess I am just trying to get started on GR&R's and the like for fixturing and other measurement tools used in the Lab I manage. Our previous manager's have left me kind of high and dry on this. We used to do GR&R's in the lab but we would do them using gage blocks (ie. .200, .400 & .600 measurements using a caliper with 3 operators and 10 trials). To me this was more of a calibration than an MSA study. We already calibrate the instruments annually using the entire range of measurement...

[bobdoering]

There are two facets to MSA: Calibration and Gage R&R. They answer two distinctly different questions. Calibration determines if the gage is reading correctly - duplicates a standard (within tolerance). Gage R&R determines if it is the correct gage for the job, that is for all the people that might use the gage, they will get the same data (within tolerance).

Calibration has a time function, in that gages wear, etc. So, depending on the gage use, the calibration frequency can be anywhere from weekly to every two years or so. It depends.

Gage R&R does not have a time function. There is no purpose to repeat gage R&R on an annual basis - or any other frequency - if done correctly the first time.

So, step 1 is to do calibrations. Step 2 is to do gage R&R. Do gage R&R on the dimensions that are the tightest or most critical first, then work your way down from there.

Have fun!

[bobdoering]

In Reply to Parent Post by rangerboat72

To me this was more of a calibration than an MSA study. We already calibrate the instruments annually using the entire range of measurement...

I agree. There is a reason to use actual parts for GR&R - whenever possible. How a person handles a part in a gage is a lot different than how one handles a gage block. Cantilevered loads, etc., can affect the measurement.

Something funny going on there.

[rangerboat72]

In Reply to Parent Post by bobdoering

There are two facets to MSA: Calibration and Gage R&R. They answer two distinctly different questions. Calibration determines if the gage is reading correctly - duplicates a standard (within tolerance). Gage R&R determines if it is the correct gage for the job, that is for all the people that might use the gage, they will get the same data (within tolerance).

Calibration has a time function, in that gages wear, etc. So, depending on the gage use, the calibration frequency can be anywhere from weekly to every two years or so. It depends.

Gage R&R does not have a time function. There is no purpose to repeat gage R&R on an annual basis - or any other frequency - if done correctly the first time.

So, step 1 is to do calibrations. Step 2 is to do gage R&R. Do gage R&R on the dimensions that are the tightest or most critical first, then work your way down from there.

Have fun!

So should I continue doing studies using gage blocks on mics, calipers, height gages, CMM's, etc.???