Another Touch on Management Commitment - Open Corrective Actions

[93ramvert]

Lack of Management Commitment and Cooperation in Implementation of QMS

I have read the above post, as well as many other dealing with this issue.

My background has been FAA Repair station , Inspector, Chief Inspector, Project Engineer,Quality Manager, and Program Manager. I have also worked with a few Aerospace Engine OEM's working as Project Engineer and Quality Engineer. I am currently a Quality Manager for a high speed testing house and equipment manufacture, where there was very little to no QMS or any type of management system in place except for a very very very intelligent man, who has A.D.D. and inventor's syndrome. On a whim he would think something would be cool and work wonders and walllaahh it was done. But as you figured didn't always work. Anyway I implemented a QMS registered to ISO 9000, and AS9100 all with the help of personnel and managers. But we still do not have full commitment and I by reading the thread above, I do not have full authority, as we have CAR's open since Jan. of 08 and I report on them on a bi-weekly staff meeting and the President of the Company has not forced anyone to get them taken care of. 1 of them is from an Surv. Audit in May. How's that for you. We just had a rather large customer here, and they were out on the shop floor, and a project manager was building an assembly with no paperwork. This program manager has taken training and has taken tests against that training for process control and doc. and data control and product I.D. But this was my problem, well his manager is the one with 13 CAR's open dating back to Jan. and the one open for the Surv. audit. Upper management is in the Staff meeting and they know that these things are going on, but they do not step in after I say we need to get these things closed out. I feel that with out these managers being commited to the system how can those below them be. What the heck can I do?????

[Cari Spears]

Originally Posted by 93ramvert

Anyway I implemented a QMS registered to ISO 9000, and AS9100 all with the help of personnel and managers. ... we have CAR's open since Jan. of 08 and I report on them on a bi-weekly staff meeting and the President of the Company has not forced anyone to get them taken care of. 1 of them is from an Surv. Audit in May. ... his manager is the one with 13 CAR's open dating back to Jan. and the one open for the Surv. audit. Upper management is in the Staff meeting and they know that these things are going on, but they do not step in after I say we need to get these things closed out. ... What the heck can I do?????

Sounds like you should cover your and keep records of your attempts to bring these items to management's attention - then let them get a nonconformance at the surveillance audit.

[Neil V.]

That's a long time for them to be open. Here's my hurried response...

Have you tried to facilitate the CA process? What I mean by this is have you taken it upon yourself to schedule a meeting for each CAR, or have you started a CAR and done some of the legwork on your own? From my own experience I have come to realize that if I hand off a CA and say 'do it!' it will never get done. It's not right for one person to 'own' the ENTIRE CA process but that's my (and maybe your?) reality.

It seems odd that your company would spend so much money to become certified and then flush it away by not closing some CA's. Personally, and without knowing all the details, I would try to get input as best as possible from the CA 'Team Members' and go ahead and close them myself. World class? No. Keep the owner happy that he didn't waste thousands of dollars? Yes.

This is the 'Stay Certified and Employed' response. I'm sure others will have a deeper answer for you. In any event, Good Luck!

[Stijloor]

Originally Posted by 93ramvert

<snip>What the heck can I do?????

Not much my friend. I've read all your other posts. I assume that you've done everything reasonably possible. There comes a time when you need to make a decision.

Best advise? Make sure your résumé is up to date.

Stijloor.

[AndyN]

Are you sure that the contents of these CARs are really something worth working on - or maybe they could just be corrected? Often the CAR system is, frankly, an albatross. Too many things that need to be fixed - apparently - and maybe if you had nothing else to do, they might, individually, be worthy of some mention in some manner.

To be helpful, I'd suggest you go through them, see what the issue is and 'sign off' where it's applicable, show some correction has happened and leave it at that.

Too many times we paint ourselves into a corner and end up complaining that management aren't working on the issues, when it's somewhat unreasonable to expect that they would - if we truly understand the nature of what we're expecting them to do to fix the CAR!

[Jennifer Kirley]

Good advice so far. Andy is right, the first step is to evaluate with your fresh set of eyes and the CAR owners. Chances are, there's a misunderstanding, situation changed, different owner, or some other problem with at least a couple of those. You can facilitate the process of getting them aired out.

Then ask yourself how effectively CARs are generated. Do they get opened for important stuff? Important to who, how? If the owners see no value in pursuing the fix, then is the requirement valid?

Do not try to fix these yourself. Hey, after all this and tons of warnings, if you get dinged for this in a third party audit, it could actually help. Be sure to shine up your resume just in case they shoot the piano player, through...

[JaneB]

Originally Posted by 93ramvert

Upper management is in the Staff meeting and they know that these things are going on, but they do not step in after I say we need to get these things closed out. I feel that with out these managers being commited to the system how can those below them be. What the heck can I do?????

First, check & cover the bases:

1. Is each CAR reasonable? ie, clear what the issue is? And capable of being closed?
2. Is there any possibility that multiple CARs have been raised for what is actually the same issue?
3. Is the CAR procedure clear?
4. Do managers need help understanding how to do it?

Do check to see you haven't done any of the things like paint yourself into a corner, allowed trivial CARs to be raised (we've all been there), or too many, or CARs that can't really ever be closed (eg, 'ensure this never happens again in future') etc.

Second, communicate clearly to senior management (AKA 'cover your own behind'.) I would write up a completely factual summary of the outstanding CARs, and as unemotional a summary as I could of what the potential risk/s are, and what the likely results are, incl. at external audit.

Find a way to present that formally.

And er yes, polish your resume.

You can lead the horse to water, you can put the damned water bucket right in front of it, you can even lift it up so that the horse doesn't even have to dip its head... but you cannot ultimately make it drink.