Must the QMS Management Representative be part of the quality department?

[Gaby OG]

Is there any problem if QMS management representative belongs to any other departments instead of QA, QC or QS? I know ISO 9001:2008 (and ISO/TS) just mention “Top management shall appoint a member of the organization’s management who, irrespective of other responsibilities, shall have responsibility and authority ….”

Our current MR was a member of our Quality Systems group, but he was just promoted to another department, his mainly responsibilities will be according to his new position besides his responsibility as MR, but Top Management is wondering if there could be a problem to explain external auditors why QMS MR does not belong to QS group, he also has thought to include his name twice in the organizational chart (with different position names) even if he won’t be working directly for QS group, I don’t think it is a problem and he doesn't need to be included twice in the organizational chart, please let me know if I’m wrong and your opinions about it.

Thanks in advance Cove gurus, and please feel free to move this thread to the correct forum.

Gaby

[Jim Wynne]

Originally Posted by Gaby OG

Is there any problem if QMS management representative belongs to any other departments instead of QA, QC or QS? I know ISO 9001:2008 (and ISO/TS) just mention “Top management shall appoint a member of the organization’s management who, irrespective of other responsibilities, shall have responsibility and authority ….”

Our current MR was a member of our Quality Systems group, but he was just promoted to another department, his mainly responsibilities will be according to his new position besides his responsibility as MR, but Top Management is wondering if there could be a problem to explain external auditors why QMS MR does not belong to QS group, he also has thought to include his name twice in the organizational chart (with different position names) even if he won’t be working directly for QS group, I don’t think it is a problem and he doesn't need to be included twice in the organizational chart, please let me know if I’m wrong and your opinions about it.

Thanks in advance Cove gurus, and please feel free to move this thread to the correct forum.

Gaby

As long as he passes the "member of the organization's management" test, it doesn't matter what department he's in.

[Gaby OG]

Originally Posted by Jim Wynne

As long as he passes the "member of the organization's management" test, it doesn't matter what department he's in.

Thanks for your reply!

What do you think about include his name in 2 different positions just because he's the QMS MR? I mean, main responsibilities will be according new department, but top management wants to include him at member of QS group just to avoid explanation to external auditors, maybe I'm not expressing myself correctly, according to top management proposal MR's name will be written in the organizational chart as member of QS group, but he won't, responsible of QS group will be someone else, he will be only in paper, but not physically.

[Jim Wynne]

Originally Posted by Gaby OG

Thanks for your reply!

What do you think about include his name in 2 different positions just because he's the QMS MR? I mean, main responsibilities will be according new department, but top management wants to include him at member of QS group just to avoid explanation to external auditors, maybe I'm not expressing myself correctly, according to top management proposal MR's name will be written in the organizational chart as member of QS group, but he won't, responsible of QS group will be someone else, he will be only in paper, but not physically.

There's no requirement to even have an org chart, so it doesn't matter so long as he is "a member of the organization's management" and he's fulfilling MR responsibilities. The CB auditor will want to know who the MR is, and should ask top managment who the MR is and what his position is, irrespective of MR duties.

[Gaby OG]

Originally Posted by Jim Wynne

There's no requirement to even have an org chart, so it doesn't matter so long as he is "a member of the organization's management" and he's fulfilling MR responsibilities. The CB auditor will want to know who the MR is, and should ask top managment who the MR is and what his position is, irrespective of MR duties.

Thank you very much!!!

[Randy]

Gaby here is what the standard states, you tell us

5.5.2 Management representative
Top management shall appoint a member of the organization's management who, irrespective of other responsibilities,...

Many of our questions can be answered by looking to the requirements themselves

[JaneB]

Very true, Randy, and I really like the way you constantly refer back to it and point people back to it, & I want you to keep right on doing it - I say that even though I know you're gonna pay no heed to anyone suggesting you do anything of course, including me

Thing is, not everyone knows the Standard inside out & back to front. Or understands it as thoroughly.

[Randy]

Originally Posted by JaneB

Thing is, not everyone knows the Standard inside out & back to front. Or understands it as thoroughly.

Thanks........yeah it's pretty sad how many practitioners need practice

The real kicker is that all it requires is taking the time, going cover to cover, removing individual bias, and not looking any deeper than the words themselves.