TL 9000 - Some questions and comparison to 9001

[QualityKey]

Hello experts

We are a big size organization. We are heading for ISO 9001 but just now the management showed some interest to go for TL 9000.

I need your help to answer these questions, please:

1- Can we apply TL 9000 to one function (in our case it is operation- 5000 employees)?
2- How would this affect our plan towards the ISO9001?
3- Are we going to work on two different projects ( ISO 9001 & TL 9000) at the same time? or can they be one project with two phases?
4- How much requirements does TL9000 have compared to ISO 9001? I mean if it takes 6-9 months to implement ISO 9001, how much longer would it take for the TL9000 to be implemented and then certified?
5- Finally, how about the cost? ISO 9001 Vs. TL 9000?

Thanks in advance, If you can answer any of these questions, please do so.....

[CarolX]

Can anyone help this user?

[Matt M]

Hi I just posted what is written below( in green ), to another question on the site, it seemed relavant so I pasted it here. My particular site did not certify for TL but our corporate site did and they were already ISO9001 certified and it still took them over a year to get TL in place. This was a few years ago though and there is probably far more options for help in getting started now than there was back then. Depending on the needs of your organization, you could certify in two phases, get ISO9001 first then work toward TL. But Being that TL is built off of 9001 if you get certified in TL, you are already compliant with 9001.
Well, I am certainly no expert on TL9000, however my company did look into becoming certified for TL and what I can tell you is that TL is, as you may know, based on the 9001 standard. One thing that TL does, is it raises the bar of tracabilty and accountability of product for suppliers, vendors and the main product producer. TL is far more involved when it comes to things such as customer due dates for orders and TL is very specific in what qualifies as a late order. As an example if your customer calls you and says they want to push the date out for and order, you can change the due date because it was customer driven. But, if you encouter a problem and call the customer and tell them you cannot meet the original due date, even if they allow you push the date out, you technically must go by the original due date because the reason behind the change was not customer driven. TL is very much about customer service and meeting the customers needs and expectations.
There is also a rating system that compares your company to similar comanies in your industry, this is done anonymously by number and there is a website where you can see where your company stands.

[Matt M]

There are also some excellent books through the QUEST forum through ASQ

[JaneB]

Originally Posted by Reflex

TL is far more involved when it comes to things such as customer due dates for orders and TL is very specific in what qualifies as a late order. As an example if your customer calls you and says they want to push the date out for an order, you can change the due date because it was customer driven. But, if you encouter a problem and call the customer and tell them you cannot meet the original due date, even if they allow you push the date out, you technically must go by the original due date because the reason behind the change was not customer driven. TL is very much about customer service and meeting the customers needs and expectations.

I really don't see any difference here (between TL and 9001). If you as a company change a due date you agreed with me as a customer (ie, I didn't change it - YOU did) I wouldn't see that as meeting the terms of our agreed contract. Or are you saying that the actual Standard has specifics for this and for 'customer service' and for 'customer needs and expectations'? Because based on what you say here, I cannot see any difference.

[Matt M]

Hi Jane,
It has been a while since I dealt with TL but as I recall if you originally agreed to a due date with the customer and the customer changes the date due to issues from their end, that's fine. But if the the date cannot be met because of issues on the provider end. Then the provider is supposed to still consider the original agreed date as the actual date, regardless if the customer allows it or not, making the shipment "late". I think this is designed to force the provider to look at the factors that created the late shipment in an effort to improve processes and keep them from repeating. I argued this point with the gentleman who ran the class I attended, stating that no company would voluntarily say they were late if they can get away with it. To which he finally agreed. But there is no way around it if the customer refuses to move the date and tells you the shipment will be marked as late by them. Because TL is so customer focused that original date you agreed to is the sticking point. I admittedly see loop holes in this idea, but that is how it was told to my class.

[John Broomfield]

Originally Posted by QualityKey

Hello experts

We are a big size organization. We are heading for ISO 9001 but just now the management showed some interest to go for TL 9000.

I need your help to answer these questions, please:

1- Can we apply TL 9000 to one function (in our case it is operation- 5000 employees)?
2- How would this affect our plan towards the ISO9001?
3- Are we going to work on two different projects ( ISO 9001 & TL 9000) at the same time? or can they be one project with two phases?
4- How much requirements does TL9000 have compared to ISO 9001? I mean if it takes 6-9 months to implement ISO 9001, how much longer would it take for the TL9000 to be implemented and then certified?
5- Finally, how about the cost? ISO 9001 Vs. TL 9000?

Thanks in advance, If you can answer any of these questions, please do so.....

Reduce the two standards to list of processes and controls. Determine where in your organization the processes and controls will do the most good for your customers, employees and shareholders.

You may end up with three scope statements of decreasing narrowness:

1. Scope of your process-based management system to improve the business
2. Scope of your system that is ISO 9001 certified
3. Scope of your system that is TL9000 certified

You may for example opt for improving your service as a telephone company by using the processes and controls specified by TL9000.

You may choose to merge scopes 1 and 2 from day one or later.

Initially you will probably keep the scope of your system that you certify as conforming to TL9000 as narrow as possible to maximize the bang for your buck. As the TL9000 conforming part of your system proves itself you can later grow its scope to include other goods/services/locations.

Allow about 3 times the time and cost for developing your system so it conforms to TL9000 versus a process-based management system that conforms to ISO 9001.

It should be seen as an investment not a cost.

Please send me a private message if you want me to determine the budget for this investment with you.

[QualityKey]

Originally Posted by Matt M

Hi I just posted what is written below( in green ), to another question on the site, it seemed relavant so I pasted it here. My particular site did not certify for TL but our corporate site did

One thing that TL does, is it raises the bar of tracabilty and accountability of product for suppliers, vendors and the main product producer. There is also a rating system that compares your company to similar comanies in your industry, this is done anonymously by number and there is a website where you can see where your company stands.

It is me again did you know that?

So it is good that we can stick with one site since we have multiple sites.

I think the main reason that make the management interested in TL9000 is to raise the bar for its suppliers/Vendors. I got to know more about the QuEST Forum, for a big organization to be a memebr, there is a membership fees ($12,000). This allows members to access data supplied anonymously by all TL9000 certified members so we can compare our performance with others and therefore put pressure on our supplier to improve the service, this is what I understand as of now.

Thanks for your reply Matt.