Does QSE integrated Management System need only one representative?

[Piero]

If you state that your QSE system is integrated do you need to have one QSE management representative? Can't you have more than one?
A CB is asking only for one and this will cause a competition among teams. I see two advantages:
1) The Company must pay only one first level manager
2) The CB can deal with only one person

Is there any improving in effectiveness?

[Sidney Vianna]

You can assign a single management representative, or you can split the responsibilities. It is your call.

To me, it seems that the sensible thing to do is have a highly competent person in charge of an integrated SEQ Management Systems. Sometimes, you will have to make business decisions that might have a beneficial impact on quality, but negative impact on environmental performance (for example). Some savy individual would have to lead the decision making process.

[Randy]

Here's the deal....the short answer is No, regardless of what Sidney or anyone else says about competence. Each system has a different requirement and here they are...

ISO 9001 - Top management shall appoint a member of the organization's management who, irrespective of other responsibilities,

ISO 14001 - The organization's top management shall appoint a specific management representative(s) who, irrespective of other responsibilities,

OHSAS 18001 - The organization shall appoint a member(s) of top management with specific responsibility for OH&S, irrespective of other responsibilities,

If you look the QMS rep must be any member of management (as defined by the organization); the EMS rep can be any individual the organization thinks is appropriate; the OHS rep must be a member or Top Management.

Now if the desire is to:
(1) have a truly integrated system or systems, and
(2) have only one management representative,

Then that management representative must be a member of Top Management, because with integrated systems the most stingent requirement of one system becomes the requirement for all the systems (this is of course only applicable for those common requirements like document control, internal audit, records managment and management representative to name a few)

[harry]

If you cannot find somebody with teeth and knowledge (especially 14k & 18k) as an ideal MR, then get one with teeth and be assisted by one or two with knowledge - MR and assistant MR.

[Sidney Vianna]

Originally Posted by Randy

Here's the deal....the short answer is No, regardless of what Sidney or anyone else says about competence. Each system has a different requirement and here they are...

You are committing the cardinal sin of jumping to a conclusion that ISO 9001, 14001 and OHSAS 18001 are in this picture. The OP mentined nothing about the 3 standards.

And by the way, ISO 9001, 14001 and OHSAS 18001 are not systems. They are standards.

PAS 99:

4.3.6 The organization’s top management shall appoint a specific management representative(s) who, irrespective of other responsibilities, shall have defined roles, responsibilities and authority for:

a) ensuring that a management system is established, implemented and maintained in accordance with the requirements of this PAS;

b) reporting to top management on the performance of the management system for review, including recommendations for improvement.

[Randy]

Yeah, but he ain't using PAS 99 most likely and I also have a copy I could have cut and pasted from but I was tired...My intuition has kept me alive so far so I'll bet I'm right on this one

I haven't jumped to too many conclusions but I have jumped over 100 times and have a successful ejection to my credit

Hey PIERO.........Are you using ISO 9001, ISO 14001 & OHSAS 18001?

[Piero]

Originally Posted by Randy

Yeah, but he ain't using PAS 99 most likely and I also have a copy I could have cut and pasted from but I was tired...My intuition has kept me alive so far so I'll bet I'm right on this one

I haven't jumped to too many conclusions but I have jumped over 100 times and have a successful ejection to my credit

Hey PIERO.........Are you using ISO 9001, ISO 14001 & OHSAS 18001?

Yes we are. We have certifications for ISO9001 & ISO14001 and we are going to get the 18001.
Anyhow, my doubt is whether a single report to the top manager is able to get the right commitment for all the 3 disciplines. He can have the teeth but he could not be able to eat 3 different foods; he could prefer the S in spite of the E and Q and he could leave always the Q in last place. Usually the slogan is "Safety first"... How do you get a safety environment without quality?

Thanks everybody for your reply.

[Randy]

It's not really committment that will be assessed for the MR (you don't see that as a requirment in any of the standards for the MR), it will be whether or not the systems have been implemented and maintained as required, system performance has been communicated as necessary, and awareness of customer requirements is known.

You have no choice about the MR for your OHS, it has to be a member of top management.

Is it best to have 1, 2 or 3? Can't say, it has to work for you, not me a certainly not whoever your auditor will be. I've audited organizations that were successful with evey possible combination.


Golly Sid I guess intuition paid off again