Some ugly truths about job hunting

[Chennaiite]

In Reply to Parent Post by Wes Bucey

Update:
Some reports say the job market is improving. As I see it, though, many of the folks who were out of work for six months or more who do find new jobs are settling for lower pay and fewer benefits. It may be better to have "some" job than "no" job, but I would hardly call it "improvement," considering the full range of a person's job history, rather than the immediate past.

Worse, some reports are hitting the general press that a number of job listings are including the phrase "only currently employed applicants considered" or some similar variation. (http://www.11alive.com/news/news_sto...44719&catid=40)

Have you seen (or heard from a recruiter) such a phrase in a job listing while on your own job hunt? How do YOU feel about a company that posts such a restriction? Can you find any justification for an employer to impose such a restriction?

Sounds intersting, even if I have not come across one such recruiter in this part of the world. Probably, because I am not on a job-searching spree, of late.
Wonder what exactly unemployed would mean to such employers. Somebody can be unemployed for a month or a quarter or a semester or even more. Putting it in a perspective, normally we dont prefer a product that are not fast-moving in the market. Reason being, they may not possess the latest features or may be expensive or of bad quality or of bad durability and so on. Unemployeds are probably considered as one such product by the employers and rightly so IMO, provided unemployment period is taken into consideration.

[Wes Bucey]

In Reply to Parent Post by Chennaiite

Sounds intersting, even if I have not come across one such recruiter in this part of the world. Probably, because I am not on a job-searching spree, of late.
Wonder what exactly unemployed would mean to such employers. Somebody can be unemployed for a month or a quarter or a semester or even more. Putting it in a perspective, normally we dont prefer a product that are not fast-moving in the market. Reason being, they may not possess the latest features or may be expensive or of bad quality or of bad durability and so on. Unemployeds are probably considered as one such product by the employers and rightly so IMO, provided unemployment period is taken into consideration.

Here's a listing (excerpted, not complete details) of one recruiter specializing in lawyers

• Litigation Associate
  
  E M Messick Consulting - Washington, DC
  
  Our client, a large national law firm with offices throughout the United States, seeks a junior to midlevel litigation associate for their Washington, DC office. Must be currently a junior to mid-level (1st- 3rd year)litigation...
  30+ days ago from Recruiters Online Network
• Food & Drug Associate
  
  E M Messick Consulting - Washington, DC
  
  Our client, a leading international law firm, seeks a junior to midlevel Food & Drug associate for the Washington, DC office. Must be currently employed as a Food & Drug associate in a large law firm or boutique; have 2-6 years...
  30+ days ago from Recruiters Online Network
• Employment Litigation Associate
  
  E M Messick Consulting - Washington, DC
  
  Our client, a leading international law firm, seeks a junior to midlevel Employment Litigation Associate for their DC office. Must be currently employed as a 1st - 4th year employment litigation associate or a junior commercial...
  30+ days ago from Recruiters Online Network
• Patent Associate
  
  E M Messick Consulting - Washington, DC
  
  A leading international law firm, with over 500 lawyers practicing in Washington, New York, San Francisco, London, and Brussels, seeks a Midlevel Associate for their Intellectual Property / Patent Department in Washington, DC. Must...
  30+ days ago from Recruiters Online Network
• Antitrust Associate
  
  E M Messick Consulting - Washington, DC
  
  Our client, a large national law firm with offices throughout the United States seeks a midlevel to senior Antitrust associate for their Washington, DC office. Must be currently employed as a 3rd - 5th year associate in a major law...
  30+ days ago from Recruiters Online Network
• Tax Associate
  
  E M Messick Consulting - Washington, DC
  
  25+ tax lawyer group. Opportunity to work on significant M&A, joint ventures, international and other corporate transactions. Must be a corporate tax associate with 1-2 years experience in a top international law firm or corporation.
  30+ days ago from Recruiters Online Network
• Intellectual Property Litigation Associate
  
  E M Messick Consulting - Washington, DC
  
  Our client, a highly regarded major law firm, seeks a junior to midlevel intellectual property litigation associate for the Washington, DC office. Must be currently employed as a 2nd - 4th year IP Litigation associate in a large law...
  30+ days ago from Recruiters Online Network
• Litigation Associate (Sr.)
  
  E M Messick Consulting - Washington, DC
  
  Our client, a prestigious international law firm, seeks senior commercial litigation associate for their DC office. Must be currently employed as a 5th 7th year commercial litigation associate in a major law firm; excellent academic...
  30+ days ago from Recruiters Online Network

The ugly truth is that the firms seeking such lawyers are not so much looking for competent lawyers as they are looking for lawyers who can bring clients with them (rainmakers.)

As some know, I was an investment banker for a number of years. That industry is notorious for body snatching rainmakers. There were and continue to be a number of headhunters who specialize in body snatching (sometimes to "buy" knowledge about a specific company or industry.)

There are also corporate spies masquerading as headhunters who cold call executives at target companies, dangling a "job offer from an unidentified company" and proceed to subtly extract inside information under the guise of an "interview."

[Chennaiite]

In Reply to Parent Post by Wes Bucey

Here's a listing (excerpted, not complete details) of one recruiter specializing in lawyersThe ugly truth is that the firms seeking such lawyers are not so much looking for competent lawyers as they are looking for lawyers who can bring clients with them (rainmakers.)

As some know, I was an investment banker for a number of years. That industry is notorious for body snatching rainmakers. There were and continue to be a number of headhunters who specialize in body snatching (sometimes to "buy" knowledge about a specific company or industry.)

There are also corporate spies masquerading as headhunters who cold call executives at target companies, dangling a "job offer from an unidentified company" and proceed to subtly extract inside information under the guise of an "interview."

Certainly this is aimed at gaining the so-called *Competitive edge* at the cost of Ethics. In any case, IMO Business and Ethics seldom goes hand-in-hand.

[Wes Bucey]

I've added to the thread title for this post:
"The interview: Some ugly truths about job hunting"

There are some relatively new surveys about the need to display "people skills" to have a better chance a landing a job (both getting to the interview via what you say in cover letter and resume and how you perform during the interview)
Here's a press release for one from last autumn.

A pertinent quote from the press release applies equally to quality professionals - note what I have highlighted in bold red

“Interpersonal skills take center stage in a collaborative workplace,” said Max Messmer, chairman of Accountemps and author of Job Hunting For Dummies®, 2nd Edition (John Wiley & Sons, Inc.). “Accountants must be able to present financial information to nonfinancial audiences, make strategic recommendations and work with colleagues from diverse departments.”

Substitute the word "quality" for "financial" and it illustrates a shortcoming many in our profession exhibit: They know what they mean, but are unable to articulate it well enough to get support from coworkers and bosses, sometimes alienating the very people from whom they need cooperation by displaying a "Kwality Kop" attitude.

We all need a reality check from time to time to ensure our workplace personality does not sabotage our career. Next week, I'll present some ideas on getting that reality check.

Any comments so far?

[zekeQA]

Wes,

I am a young quality minded individual who is making less almost one year after a layoff than before. Thankfully I do have a job and thus do have opportunies for personal, then career, advancement. It is challenging to advance your career while unemployed.

In my new position I have to "sell" quality methods to my suppliers. Fortunalty I have sales experience, but it is a challenge to hang a red tag on a part and then "sell" the supplier on the idea that it is nonconforming when it clearly does not meet specifications. I wish that I had this realization four months ago... I tend to be very direct, and when defensive, people have a problem with directness. I think of it as honest...but admittedly at times I can use more tact.

Thank you for your informative posts.

[Wes Bucey]

In Reply to Parent Post by zekeQA

Wes,

I am a young quality minded individual who is making less almost one year after a layoff than before. Thankfully I do have a job and thus do have opportunies for personal, then career, advancement. It is challenging to advance your career while unemployed.

In my new position I have to "sell" quality methods to my suppliers. Fortunalty I have sales experience, but it is a challenge to hang a red tag on a part and then "sell" the supplier on the idea that it is nonconforming when it clearly does not meet specifications. I wish that I had this realization four months ago... I tend to be very direct, and when defensive, people have a problem with directness. I think of it as honest...but admittedly at times I can use more tact.

Thank you for your informative posts.

One of the few good things the American Society for Quality (ASQ) has done relatively recently is put some emphasis on communicating quality issues to higher levels of management without being the messenger who gets slain for bringing bad news. Folks who recognize their own shortcomings in this aspect of being a quality professional can gain some good tips from this segment at ASQ
(Note: some of these articles may be restricted to members only - I haven't time to check now, but, if so, write a post to alert us and I will create a synopsis (review) which will meet copyright rules for "fair use")

Primary resource:
A 16 page white paper:
MAKING THE ECONOMIC CASE FOR QUALITY ®
An ASQ White Paper by John Ryan
ISM Makes the Business Case for Social Responsibility

ASQ: Does Baldrige Make a Business Case for Quality


ASQ: A Business Case Perspective: Building Information Quality ...

ASQ - Key Elements of a Knowledge Management Business Case

[AnaMariaVR2]

Wess...I've also seen the articles such as the one you posted earlier http://www.11alive.com/news/news_sto...44719&catid=40
...or just like this one: "Out-of-work job applicants told unemployed need not apply" http://finance.yahoo.com/news/Outofw...52371.html?x=0

...it seems like it is the unspoken 'modus operandi' during this recession. My radar screen lights up with the acronym: EEO, the Equal Employment Opportunity. I can't be the only one bringing this to discussion.

Why is this not being addressed? That is my question. In my view, it seems like these unemployed candidates are being discriminated. And I'm not playing the political-correctness card here.

Any thoughts?

Regards & thank you in advance your posts on this topic,
Ana

[Wes Bucey]

In Reply to Parent Post by AnaMariaVR2

Wess...I've also seen the articles such as the one you posted earlier http://www.11alive.com/news/news_sto...44719&catid=40
...or just like this one: "Out-of-work job applicants told unemployed need not apply" http://finance.yahoo.com/news/Outofw...52371.html?x=0

...it seems like it is the unspoken 'modus operandi' during this recession. My radar screen lights up with the acronym: EEO, the Equal Employment Opportunity. I can't be the only one bringing this to discussion.

Why is this not being addressed? That is my question. In my view, it seems like these unemployed candidates are being discriminated. And I'm not playing the political-correctness card here.

Any thoughts?

Regards & thank you in advance your posts on this topic,
Ana

Yep! This kind of apparent contradiction gets more than a few people riled up. Sorry to say, there is no contradiction because the EEO statutes do not yet list "unemployed" as a protected category. It rankles folks as unfair, but, in the USA, we have to lobby our elected representatives to add more protected categories. It's the process we've used to have the current categories. If you'd like some info on how to organize a lobbying campaign, start a new thread asking that.