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  #41  
Old 10th January 2011, 11:27 AM
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Re: Some ugly truths about job hunting

Quote:
In Reply to Parent Post by tomvehoski View Post

I can only speak to my personal knowledge. Look back at my post (#30) and you will see the two jobs I landed during this recession came from simply having a resume online and keeping it refreshed. My research, cover letters, customization, etc. all failed to land jobs. My result is 100% of jobs landed in last two years from a passive approach.
Right! We are arguing apples and oranges. You are trying to extrapolate YOUR personal experience onto one million or more folks out of work - not statistically valid.

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  #42  
Old 10th January 2011, 01:17 PM
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Re: 2011 - Some more ugly truths about job hunting

It is really no less statistically valid than your quote:

Quote:
In Reply to Parent Post by Wes Bucey View Post


I have personally hired hundreds of people in my 40+ year career. The companies in which I was an owner or major stockholder have hired thousands. In the 70's, I was a principal stockholder of the largest employment agency in Chicago (by default and foreclosure on a loan I made to the original owners.) When I write these posts about finding, getting, and keeping a job, I'm writing the truth. Sometimes it is an ugly truth, a hard truth, but it is the truth.
We are each one individual observing the job market over 2-4 decades, but that is still two of 300 million people in the US. What happened in the 70s to 00s don't apply today as far as getting noticed for most jobs.

I do have to ask, in the last two years:
- How many resumes have YOU sent out
- How many jobs have YOU interviewed for
- How many people have YOU hired?

Perhaps I am misreading you message due to the impersonality of the internet, but the message I keep getting is "If you don't have a job, you are not working at it hard enough". That is just not true based on my experience and that of many others in the unemployment lines. Some people will get hired by dumb luck and a feel good story like the radio announcer. Others might spend 80 hours a week working at it for two years. Most will fall somewhere between those extremes.
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  #43  
Old 10th January 2011, 02:25 PM
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Re: 2011 - Some more ugly truths about job hunting

Quote:
In Reply to Parent Post by tomvehoski View Post

It is really no less statistically valid than your quote:



We are each one individual observing the job market over 2-4 decades, but that is still two of 300 million people in the US. What happened in the 70s to 00s don't apply today as far as getting noticed for most jobs.

I do have to ask, in the last two years:
- How many resumes have YOU sent out
- How many jobs have YOU interviewed for
- How many people have YOU hired?

Perhaps I am misreading you message due to the impersonality of the internet, but the message I keep getting is "If you don't have a job, you are not working at it hard enough". That is just not true based on my experience and that of many others in the unemployment lines. Some people will get hired by dumb luck and a feel good story like the radio announcer. Others might spend 80 hours a week working at it for two years. Most will fall somewhere between those extremes.
Those who actually follow the advice given by Bolles (http://www.jobhuntersbible.com/) and in our job threads WILL have an advantage over those who don't. The truth is many folks are working hard at finding a job, but they are not working smart and they are repeating the same mistakes, leaving out the evaluation of their job hunting work to date. That evaluation and periodic re-evaluation are key factors in the success or non-success of the job hunt. There are some people who are lucky and have enough visibility of their skills and abilities for prospective employers to find them. Some people win lotteries, but most don't. Hanging on false hope that lightning will strike and not working on finding a job is kind of like the story which keeps cropping up in Sunday sermons:
"Each morning, John would pray, 'Please, God, let me win the lottery today.' Each day would end with no win of the lottery. After a year, John, shouted, 'How can I believe in a God who won't let me win the lottery?'

God finally spoke, 'Give me a break; buy a ticket!'"

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  #44  
Old 1st March 2011, 04:31 PM
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ANOTHER ugly truth about job hunting

I've been pondering all day where to put the following piece of advice. It's an ugly truth, so probably it belongs in this thread.


Last night I gave a presentation to a group of business leaders on Lean techniques. Surprisingly, after the formal presentation, the group kept me captive for another 45 minutes discussing hiring/firing of personnel because they latched on to a little squib in the emcee's introduction that I moderate several forums on jobs and occupations.

There were lots of questions and even more comments about recent experiences in dealing with candidates and existing employees.

Today's post, though, is just about one UGLY TRUTH that every person there agreed on:
"A resume and cover letter with poor grammar and spelling is almost immediately removed from consideration."

Most there agreed one typo, even two, might get through, but consistently bad spelling, poor grammar, and mere lists of jobs without any description of what value the candidate delivered or received were absolute turnoffs.

The one overwhelming reason given was this:
When I hire someone, that person represents ME. I don't want others to think I am incompetent at communicating because one of my employees is poor at spelling, grammar, or getting a point across in writing. Times are tight. I don't have the luxury of taking the time to re-educate someone on something he should have learned in school.

I started to protest, "Hey some folks didn't have the opportunity to go to a fine school . . ." when I got shouted down with, "These are college graduates we are talking about!"

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  #45  
Old 28th March 2012, 02:15 PM
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Re: Some ugly truths about job hunting

Today, one of the financial columnists for the Chicago Tribune included a graphic based on some research by the Urban Institute.
The graphic is here (for a short time) - I'm keeping a personal copy which I am willing to LEND to anyone unable to access the Tribune's graphic.

Essentially, the research takes what I wrote as anecdotal evidence in Post 1 and embellishes it with facts from the most recent recession.

Here are some highlights:
Probability of being rehired (at ANY job) within 18 months, broken down by age brackets
25 - 34
Years 2004-2007: 89.1%
Years 2008-2011: 77.4%
% drop: - 11.7%

35 - 49
Years 2004-2007: 88.7%
Years 2008-2011: 76.1%
% drop: - 12.6%

50 - 61
Years 2004-2007: 78.4%
Years 2008-2011: 64.7%
% drop: - 13.7%

62 and older
Years 2004-2007: 54.6%
Years 2008-2011: 40.8%
% drop: - 13.8%

Median employment wage (in dollars per month) AFTER being rehired, compared to wage before losing previous job, followed by the percentage drop (understand these are AFTER the guys who got raises are factored in - the age category in EVERY instance suffered a drop)
25 - 34
Prior wage: $1,944
New wage: $1,732
% drop: - 11%

35 - 49
Prior wage: $2,400
New wage: $1,949
% drop: - 19%

50 - 61
Prior wage: $2,598
New wage: $2,000
% drop: - 23%

62 and older
Prior wage: $2,074
New wage: $1,100
% drop: - 47%

Remember what I wrote:
Another ugly truth:
If you want a job, you have to make a job out of finding a job. That means learning new skills, new tools, and how to use them correctly. If you aren't willing to do that, don't waste your time reading these threads - there are no magic ways to getting and keeping a good-paying job where you can be happy and have an opportunity to advance. (Even marrying the boss's child doesn't guarantee happiness and opportunity to advance!)
and
A less pithy, but still thought-provoking quote on luck is from a fellow descended from French Hugenots (as am I) "What helps luck is a habit of watching for opportunities, of having a patient but restless mind, of sacrificing one's ease or vanity, or uniting a love of detail to foresight, and of passing through hard times bravely and cheerfully." Cherbuliez, Victor

My gramps always said, "opportunity knocks all the time, but some people are too arrogant to answer the door."
and, most importantly:
Some rays of sunshine:

Despite all the gloom and doom, some folks are making job transitions which pay more than the previous job AND supply some work satisfaction to boot.

We need to remember statistics are based on large numbers of individuals. The first question in our minds should be: "How can I separate myself from the pack and stand out in a prospective employer's eyes so I can earn the optimum salary and improve my lot in life instead of falling behind?"
We have threads with advice that works as well today as ever. I list those threads in post 1. Following the advice in those threads WILL help an unemployed or under-employed person separate himself from the pack these foregoing statistics represent.

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  #46  
Old 28th March 2012, 02:37 PM
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Re: Some ugly truths about job hunting

Hi Wes

12.8 million people unemployed in the U.S.
http://www.bls.gov/news.release/empsit.nr0.htm


3.5 million job openings in the U.S.
http://www.bls.gov/news.release/jolts.nr0.htm

9.3 million people with no job opportunities in the U.S.

NC
  #47  
Old 28th March 2012, 06:12 PM
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Re: Some ugly truths about job hunting

Quote:
In Reply to Parent Post by NumberCruncher View Post

Hi Wes

12.8 million people unemployed in the U.S.
http://www.bls.gov/news.release/empsit.nr0.htm


3.5 million job openings in the U.S.
http://www.bls.gov/news.release/jolts.nr0.htm

9.3 million people with no job opportunities in the U.S.

NC
Yep. But why align oneself with the 9.3 million on the outside looking in?

What I wrote is POSITIVE!
We need to remember statistics are based on large numbers of individuals. The first question in our minds should be: "How can I separate myself from the pack and stand out in a prospective employer's eyes so I can earn the optimum salary and improve my lot in life instead of falling behind?"

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Thanks to Wes Bucey for your informative Post and/or Attachment!
  #48  
Old 29th March 2012, 10:15 AM
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Re: Some ugly truths about job hunting

Quote:
In Reply to Parent Post by Wes Bucey View Post

What I wrote is POSITIVE


Always be positive -


there are 1,000 of employers out there that want you they just don't know it yet – it is your job to let them know they need you to add value to there business.
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