Customer Complaints captured in CA (Corrective Action) Process

[whitey115]

Our company is ISO 9001;2000 registered and our third party auditor insists that all customer complaints should be documented using the CA process.
Our view is that customer complaints that are isolated incidents that are considered to be a onetime oversight should not necessarily be captured in the formal CA process. They are still captured on a historical matrix of isolated incidents which is part of our QMS.
My question is a simple one. Is it the intent of element 8.5.2 of the ISO 9001:2000 standard to capture ALL customer complaints in the formal CA process?
Thanks to all who have input in this interpretation of the standard.

[Stijloor]

Originally Posted by whitey115

<snip> My question is a simple one. Is it the intent of element 8.5.2 of the ISO 9001:2000 standard to capture ALL customer complaints in the formal CA process?

No. Customer complaints are reviewed by authorized persons and depending on the severity of the complaint (based on pre-established evaluation ctiteria), you decide how and when to move forward with formal Corrective Action. The auditor is not allowed to "demand, advise, recommend, suggest, etc." That's a no-no!

The problem with most organizations is that they do not have well-established problem/complaint/nonconformity evaluation criteria. So they do not know how to evaluate nonconformities for the purpose of deciding on- and initiating formal corrective action.

Stijloor.

[Jim Wynne]

Originally Posted by whitey115

Our company is ISO 9001;2000 registered and our third party auditor insists that all customer complaints should be documented using the CA process.
Our view is that customer complaints that are isolated incidents that are considered to be a onetime oversight should not necessarily be captured in the formal CA process. They are still captured on a historical matrix of isolated incidents which is part of our QMS.
My question is a simple one. Is it the intent of element 8.5.2 of the ISO 9001:2000 standard to capture ALL customer complaints in the formal CA process?
Thanks to all who have input in this interpretation of the standard.

The standard requires CA when "the organization" believes CA is warranted. While 8.5.2(a) does mention customer complaints, the required documented procedure says that actions "...shall be appropriate to the effects of the nonconformities encountered," and that you need to evaluate "...the need for action to ensure that nonconformities do not recur..." (Emphasis added)

The fact that you review customer complaints, decide whether action is warranted or not, and keep a record is enough. Your auditor is wrong, in other words.

[GStough]

Originally Posted by whitey115

Our company is ISO 9001;2000 registered and our third party auditor insists that all customer complaints should be documented using the CA process.
Our view is that customer complaints that are isolated incidents that are considered to be a onetime oversight should not necessarily be captured in the formal CA process. They are still captured on a historical matrix of isolated incidents which is part of our QMS.
My question is a simple one. Is it the intent of element 8.5.2 of the ISO 9001:2000 standard to capture ALL customer complaints in the formal CA process?
Thanks to all who have input in this interpretation of the standard.

Hello whitey115, and welcome to the Cove!

To answer your question, no, I don't believe it is the intent of 8.5.2 that ALL customer complaints must be captured in the formal CA process.

Our third party (registrar) auditors do not expect to see all of our complaints captured in our CA system, however, they do expect to see evidence that the complaints have been reviewed and determined whether or not a CA should be initiated, which we do.

Hope this helps...

[SteelMaiden]

How do you know that "complaints that are isolated incidents that are considered to be a onetime oversight"? Obviously, you are performing an investigation. Investigations are a part of the corrective action process. It is up to you to decide which, if any actions need to be taken to prevent recurrence of the problem. Sometimes, no actions need to be taken because, well, lets face it, there is no return. But, you still need to capture the complaint, figure out what happened and why before you can make the decision not to perform any further actions. Simple answer, yes, you need to capture them. Call them whatever you want, but they need to be captured.

A corrective action system is more than just doing action items. You can perform action items all day long and not solve a thing if you don't follow the process.

[Jim Wynne]

Originally Posted by SteelMaiden

How do you know that "complaints that are isolated incidents that are considered to be a onetime oversight"? Obviously, you are performing an investigation. Investigations are a part of the corrective action process. It is up to you to decide which, if any actions need to be taken to prevent recurrence of the problem. Sometimes, no actions need to be taken because, well, lets face it, there is no return. But, you still need to capture the complaint, figure out what happened and why before you can make the decision not to perform any further actions. Simple answer, yes, you need to capture them. Call them whatever you want, but they need to be captured.

A corrective action system is more than just doing action items. You can perform action items all day long and not solve a thing if you don't follow the process.

The OP said that he is recording "isolated incidents." The question was about whether the formal CA system must be invoked in those cases. The answer is "no." The CA system doesn't have to be used in cases where no CA is warranted, but it might be the easiest way--open a CAR and close it when the investigation indicates that CA isn't necessary. Nonetheless, auditors shouldn't be allowed to make stuff up.

[Quality Priest]

Personally I capture every customer complaint, regardless of the outcome.

It may be that these onetime oversights are coming from the same source.

If you don’t capture it, and document it how can you improve it?

[GStough]

Originally Posted by Quality Priest

Personally I capture every customer complaint, regardless of the outcome.
It may be that these onetime oversights are coming from the same source.

If you don’t capture it, and document it how can you improve it?

We capture every customer complaint, too, but we don't open a CA on every complaint. We do, however, review the complaint to see if a CA is appropriate and if so then we open a CA. This is also documented.