The Elsmar Cove Forum and Site Map The Elsmar Cove Wiki More Free Files The Elsmar Cove Forums Discussion Thread Index Post Attachments Listing Failure Modes Services and Solutions to Problems Elsmar cove Forums Main Page Elsmar Cove Home Page

Go Back   The Elsmar Cove Forum > Aerospace and Aviation Requirements > Federal Aviation Administration (FAA)


The Elsmar Cove Forum SideBar!
Monitor the Forum
Monitor New Forum Posts
New Threads Feeds
RSS FeedRSS Feed
Sponsor Link










$ Contributor Forum Access
Courtesy Quick Links

Links that Elsmar Cove visitors will find useful in your quest for knowledge:


Howard's International Quality Services

Atul's Symphony Technologies

Dave Scott's Scott Quality Solutions

Praxiom Research Group


NIST's Engineering Statistics Handbook

IRCA - International Register of Certified Auditors

SAE - Society of Automotive Engineers

Quality Digest Portal

IEST - Institute of Environmental Sciences and Technology

ASQ - American Society for Quality


All the Important Standards and Related Web Sites in the World
Reply
 
Thread Tools Search this Thread Rate Thread Content Display Modes
  #1  
Old 30th June 2009, 03:57 PM
jameslaz jameslaz is offline
Involved in Discussions

Registration Date: Jan 2008
Location: Arizona, USA
 
Posts: 16
Thanks Given to Others: 15
Thanked 3 Times in 1 Post
Karma Power: 8
Karma: 15
jameslaz has less than 100 Karma points so far.
Please Help! PMA Test and Computation Question - FAA order 8110.42C Chapter 2 section 6 b

I am trying to find and answer to what I thought was a simple question, I am hopping someone can set me straight. My company is just starting up in the PMA world and I have questions about Test and Computation data. In FAA order 8110.42C Chapter 2 section 6 b. It states Comparative Test and Analysis, or General Test and Analysis. I am not really sure what is meant by General Test and Analysis. We have a new employee who is stating that you can get a PMA supplement approved by test and computation with out actually making the new PMA part and testing it. I do not see how this is possible but I may be wrong, I have gone under the assumption of Comparative Test and Analysis which clearly states “This method entails analysis and test of the original and proposed parts”. Me fellow employee is stating as long as it is not a critical part just reverse engineering and creating a print based on the reverse engineering data is enough for an approval. If anyone has any information to share on this subject this I would be grateful for any help.

Thank you,
James
Reply With Quote

Sponsored Links
  #2  
Old 1st July 2009, 10:12 AM
Marc's Avatar
Marc Marc is online now
Your Elsmar Cove Host

Registration Date: Jan 1996
Location: West Chester, Ohio - USA
Age: 59
 
Posts: 15,857
Thanks Given to Others: 1,895
Thanked 1,567 Times in 1,019 Posts
Blog Entries: 4
Karma Power: 605
Karma: 11564
Marc is appreciated, and has over 1700 Karma points.Marc is appreciated, and has over 1700 Karma points.Marc is appreciated, and has over 1700 Karma points.
Marc is appreciated, and has over 1700 Karma points.Marc is appreciated, and has over 1700 Karma points.Marc is appreciated, and has over 1700 Karma points.Marc is appreciated, and has over 1700 Karma points.Marc is appreciated, and has over 1700 Karma points.Marc is appreciated, and has over 1700 Karma points.Marc is appreciated, and has over 1700 Karma points.Marc is appreciated, and has over 1700 Karma points.Marc is appreciated, and has over 1700 Karma points.Marc is appreciated, and has over 1700 Karma points.Marc is appreciated, and has over 1700 Karma points.Marc is appreciated, and has over 1700 Karma points.Marc is appreciated, and has over 1700 Karma points.Marc is appreciated, and has over 1700 Karma points.
Send a message via AIM to Marc Send a message via Skype™ to Marc
Default Re: PMA Test and Computation Question - FAA order 8110.42C Chapter 2 section 6 b

Can anyone help with this one?
__________________
A Search is a terrible thing to waste!
One Test is Worth 1000 Expert Opinions - The plural of anecdote is not data.
We can't solve problems by using the same kind of thinking we used when we created them. - Unknown
Reply With Quote
Thanks to Marc for your informative Post and/or Attachment!
Sponsored Links

  #3  
Old 1st July 2009, 11:52 AM
BadgerMan's Avatar
BadgerMan BadgerMan is offline
Moderator

Registration Date: Feb 2001
Location: Grand Rapids, Michigan
Age: 48
 
Posts: 483
Thanks Given to Others: 36
Thanked 73 Times in 64 Posts
Karma Power: 64
Karma: 979
BadgerMan is appreciated, and has over 900 Karma points.BadgerMan is appreciated, and has over 900 Karma points.BadgerMan is appreciated, and has over 900 Karma points.BadgerMan is appreciated, and has over 900 Karma points.BadgerMan is appreciated, and has over 900 Karma points.BadgerMan is appreciated, and has over 900 Karma points.BadgerMan is appreciated, and has over 900 Karma points.BadgerMan is appreciated, and has over 900 Karma points.
Default Re: PMA Test and Computation Question - FAA order 8110.42C Chapter 2 section 6 b

It seems pretty straight forward to me but I would not proceed too far without discussing your plans with your DER and/or your ACO.

From 8110.42C, Chapter 2:

Quote:
6. Special Requirements for Test and Computation Applications. Applications submitted on the basis of test and computation should specifically address:

a. Compliance with Airworthiness Standards. Applications based on test and computation, either comparative or general test and analysis, must demonstrate compliance with applicable airworthiness standards. These include special conditions that apply to the respective products. The certification basis for the PMA part is the same as the basis for products affected by part installation (see the TCDS). Find minimum performance standards in applicable TSOs and airworthiness requirements in the following 14 CFR parts:



b. Substantiation. The applicant can prove compliance with applicable airworthiness standards by comparative or general test and analysis. Comparative test and analysis substantiates that the PMA part is at least equal to the approved original part. Thus, the PMA part meets the same airworthiness standards as the original part. General test and analysis shows the part complies directly with all airworthiness regulations applicable to the product affected by part installation. Tests support each type of analysis and confirm significant assumptions, findings or conclusions.
__________________
Quando Omni Flunkus Moritati
Reply With Quote
Thanks to BadgerMan for your informative Post and/or Attachment!
  #4  
Old 1st July 2009, 12:06 PM
BadgerMan's Avatar
BadgerMan BadgerMan is offline
Moderator

Registration Date: Feb 2001
Location: Grand Rapids, Michigan
Age: 48
 
Posts: 483
Thanks Given to Others: 36
Thanked 73 Times in 64 Posts
Karma Power: 64
Karma: 979
BadgerMan is appreciated, and has over 900 Karma points.BadgerMan is appreciated, and has over 900 Karma points.BadgerMan is appreciated, and has over 900 Karma points.BadgerMan is appreciated, and has over 900 Karma points.BadgerMan is appreciated, and has over 900 Karma points.BadgerMan is appreciated, and has over 900 Karma points.BadgerMan is appreciated, and has over 900 Karma points.BadgerMan is appreciated, and has over 900 Karma points.
Default Re: PMA Test and Computation Question - FAA order 8110.42C Chapter 2 section 6 b

Reading on we find:

Quote:
(1) Comparative Test and Analysis. Expect the applicant to demonstrate the functional design of the proposed part is at least equal that of the original TC, STC, or TSO part. This method entails analyses and tests of the original and proposed parts. The criticality of the part and the complexity of its design will dictate the rigor of the comparative analysis and the extent of testing. Side-by-side testing of proposed and original parts with zero service time under the same procedures and conditions provide the standard to evaluate the adequacy of the replacement part. The results of the analyses and tests will note any differences and provide sound technical justifications for these differences. Reverse engineering of the original part supports a comparative analysis. However, comparison of the respective PMA and product designs may suffice for simple, non-critical parts.

(2) General Test and Analysis. The applicant shows the part complies directly with the product’s airworthiness requirements and applicable TSO requirements. For example, certification of a proposed replacement part for an engine by this method would require compliance with all regulations of 14 CFR part 33 applicable to the affected product.

(3) Test Scope and Plan.

(a) Part criticality and complexity determines the need, type, and scope of testing to support either a comparative or general analysis. Testing ranges from functional to component to flight. This verifies the performance and durability of the part for compliance with applicable airworthiness standards. Simple, non-critical parts may need little or no testing.
As I said above, get some direction from your DER or the ACO.
__________________
Quando Omni Flunkus Moritati
Reply With Quote
Thanks to BadgerMan for your informative Post and/or Attachment!
Reply

Lower Navigation Bar
Go Back   The Elsmar Cove Forum > Aerospace and Aviation Requirements > Federal Aviation Administration (FAA)

Bookmarks


Visitors Currently Viewing this Thread: 1 (0 Registered Visitors and 1 Unregistered Guests)
 
Thread Tools Search this Thread
Search this Thread:

Advanced Forum Search
Display Modes Rate Thread Content
Rate Thread Content:

Posting Settings
You may not post new threads
You may not post replies
You may not post attachments
You may not edit your posts

BB code is On
Smilies are On
[IMG] code is On
HTML code is Off

Forum Jump

Similar Discussion Threads
Discussion Thread Title Thread Starter Forum Replies Last Post or Poll Vote
PMA Approval Based on Test & Computation OEM Requirements jameslaz Federal Aviation Administration (FAA) 2 26th August 2008 08:53 AM
FAA Los Angeles ACO Manager for PMA Submittals jameslaz Federal Aviation Administration (FAA) 2 5th August 2008 08:15 PM
PMA (Parts Manufacturer Approval) FAA Submittal jameslaz Federal Aviation Administration (FAA) 7 15th July 2008 10:01 AM
Chapter III- Section C of the AIAG MSA manual (3rd Edition) - Tired of analysis? Atul Khandekar Gage R&R (GR&R) and MSA (Measurement Systems Analysis) 1 20th September 2002 05:25 AM
Stupid Question of the Day - Start at section 4 or section 5? Andy Bassett ISO 9001 - Quality Management Systems Standard 7 27th September 2000 12:28 PM



The time now is 12:36 AM. All times are GMT -4.
The time zone can be changed in your UserCP --> Options.



   

All Y'All Come Back Now, Y' Hear?

Made With A Mac! FreeBSD OS Powered by Apache!
Using php4 Forums provided and maintained by Marc Smith Database by MySQL

FAIR USE and CORRECTNESS NOTICE: This site contains copyrighted material the use of which has not always been specifically authorized by the copyright owner. We are making such material available in our efforts to advance understanding of environmental, political, human rights, economic, democracy, scientific, and social justice issues, etc. We believe herein constitutes a 'fair use' of any such copyrighted material as provided for in section 107 of the US Copyright Law. In accordance with Title 17 U.S.C. Section 107, the material on this site is distributed without profit to those who have expressed a prior interest in receiving the included information for research and educational purposes. For more information go to: http://www.law.cornell.edu/uscode/17/ If you wish to use copyrighted material from this site for purposes of your own that go beyond 'fair use', you must obtain permission from the copyright owner. In addition, I do not guarantee the correctness of the content. The risk of using content from the Elsmar Cove web site and forums remains with the user/visitor.

Responsibility Statement: Each person is responsible for anything they post in the Elsmar Cove forum. Neither I, Marc Timothy Smith, nor any of the forum Moderators, are responsible for the content of posts people make. Liability for post content resides with the poster as does interpretation and/or acceptance and/or use of advice by the reader.

Complaints: If you have a complaint with a post in a forum discussion thread, including Content in general, fighting, flaming, copyright infringement, defamation and/or 'slander', please use the 'Report This Post Report This Post Button button which appears at the top of every post in every thread.

Site courtesy of:
Marc Timothy Smith - Cayman Business Systems, 8466 Lesourdsville-West Chester Road, West Chester, Ohio 45069-1929 - USA
(513) 341-6272

To contact me, click the Google Voice link below, enter Your Name and Your Phone Number and Google will ring your phone and connect you for free!

The Elsmar Cove Web Site is *CopyFree*
no new posts