Integration of ISO 14001 with ISO 9001 for a 'single' system

[goose]

What are advantages and disadvantages of full integration of 14001 with 9001? Please coment on extent of documentation required including QA Manual? Cost? What happens when "the auditor(s) come? Anyting else?

Organizations I have sampled seem to prefer separate systems and separate audits?

Help!

[Randy]

What are the "A's" or "D's" of integration?

Lets see.......
A - You don't need seperate internal audit, corrective & preventive action, document control, management review, & records control, and other stuff like that. You may be able to get by with fewer internal audits and auditors because of the integration. People won't need to learn 2 different systems.

D - You may not be able to justify some jobs because of redundency. One system may seem to trample on the other at times. The system may have the tendency to become over documented.

ISO 14001 requires less documentation than 9001, but combining the systems may actually cause a reduction in the overall level.

The auditor's (Registrar type) won't care. They will get paid the same. Many times the auditors will be qualified to audit both systems, so check with your Registrar.

I always recommend (just like with my present client) to integrate as much as possible. Integration of the 2 systems helps reduce confusion.

[goose]

Randy, thanks for the prompt feedback.

[Marc]

I'm in the middle of the same thing. See ISO 14001 in Transportation (Truck) - Small to Medium Transportation

[goose]

I talked to our Registrar and seems few of their clients have gone to total integration even though they offer discounts (days and $)

Have talked to some other organizations who considered it. Two common comments, either they have separate management structures for QMS/EMS or the QMS is much more mature than EMS and they don't want to "nuts around with change".

We are still evaluating.

[Marc]

Do please keep us informed.

[Randy]

The QMS is more mature than the EMS? I keep hearing that, and my answer is BS. Organizations have been managing environmental issues, communicating, training, making corrections and all that crap for quite some time. What we have now is a codification of of an official style of "Management System".

During implementation take the approach of using everything that was in place, bring it line with the required 17 elements of 14K and clean up existing procedures. Top it off with an internal audit system with a review (at least one annual) by "Top Management", and TA-DAAA you'll have what is needed.

It works for me..

[goose]

Randy, based on your last comments that's what we did and
TA-DAAAA we were just 5 minutes ago recommended for successful Registration. (Eleven action items Step 1 and zero Step 2)

It really isn't "rocket science'; mostly common sense. Randy is right on, most organizations management the environmental issues. It seems when you add "ISO" all the sudden it gets complicated.