The Elsmar Cove Wiki More Free Files The Elsmar Cove Forums Discussion Thread Index Post Attachments Listing Failure Modes Services and Solutions to Problems Elsmar cove Forums Main Page Elsmar Cove Home Page
Go Back   The Elsmar Cove Forum > ISO (International Organization for Standardization) Standards > ISO/TS 16949 - International Automotive Quality Systems Standard
Forum Username


Search the Elsmar Cove
Custom Search
Monitor the Elsmar Forum
Follow Marc & Elsmar
Elsmar Cove Forum RSS Feed  Marc Smith's Google+ Page  Marc Smith's Linked In Page   Marc Smith's Elsmar Cove YouTube Page  Marc Smith's Facebook Page  Elsmar Cove Twitter Feed
Elsmar Cove Groups
Elsmar Cove Google+ Group  Elsmar Cove LinkedIn Group  Elsmar Cove Facebook Group
Sponsor Links





Donate and $ Contributor Forum Access
Courtesy Quick Links

Links that Elsmar Cove visitors will find useful in your quest for knowledge:

Howard's
International Quality Services
Marcelo Antunes'
SQR Consulting
Bob Doering's
Correct SPC - Precision Machining

NIST's Engineering Statistics Handbook
IRCA - International Register of Certified Auditors
SAE - Society of Automotive Engineers
Quality Digest Portal
IEST - Institute of Environmental Sciences and Technology
ASQ - American Society for Quality
Reply
 
Thread Tools Search this Thread Rate Thread Content Display Modes
  #1  
Old 21st October 2009, 05:24 AM
vitortavares vitortavares is offline
Involved in Discussions

 
Registration Date: Oct 2005
Location: Portugal
 
Posts: 36
Thanks Given to Others: 43
Thanked 5 Times in 2 Posts
Karma Power: 38
Karma: 35
vitortavares has less than 100 Karma points so far.
Please Help! The organization shall have internal auditors - 8.2.2.5 - Internal auditors

Hello covers

In the requirement 8.2.2.5 says that “The organization shall have internal auditors...”.

I know that this means that the organization shall have internal auditors that are qualified to perform internal audits to the QMS, manufacturer process and product according to the requirements of the TS, but my doubt is:

It’s desirable to have auditors that are also company workers or have internal auditors that are contracted to perform internal audits.

I hope that your opinions and experiences help me decide this matter.

Thank you in advance.

Sponsored Links
  #2  
Old 21st October 2009, 06:07 AM
qusys qusys is offline
Appreciated Information Resource

 
Registration Date: Mar 2008
 
Posts: 2,162
Thanks Given to Others: 230
Thanked 706 Times in 620 Posts
Karma Power: 249
Karma: 4238
qusys is appreciated, and has over 1700 Karma points.
qusys is appreciated, and has over 1700 Karma points.qusys is appreciated, and has over 1700 Karma points.qusys is appreciated, and has over 1700 Karma points.qusys is appreciated, and has over 1700 Karma points.qusys is appreciated, and has over 1700 Karma points.qusys is appreciated, and has over 1700 Karma points.qusys is appreciated, and has over 1700 Karma points.qusys is appreciated, and has over 1700 Karma points.qusys is appreciated, and has over 1700 Karma points.
Re: 8.2.2.5 - Internal auditors

Quote:
In Reply to Parent Post by vitortavares View Post

Hello covers

In the requirement 8.2.2.5 says that “The organization shall have internal auditors...”.

I know that this means that the organization shall have internal auditors that are qualified to perform internal audits to the QMS, manufacturer process and product according to the requirements of the TS, but my doubt is:

It’s desirable to have auditors that are also company workers or have internal auditors that are contracted to perform internal audits.

I hope that your opinions and experiences help me decide this matter.

Thank you in advance.
Hi vitortavares,
in my external audit I saw some organization that have contracted internal audits to external auditing company, but these were organization ISO 9001 certified.
From ISO TS, it could be different, because internal audit, belongs to the company itself, shall also know customer requirements for the organziation business. So this kind if audit could not be deployed to external outsource.
Besides, one CSR of major automotive company ( Ford, Chrisler, GM) also required internal auditors qualified by an external body to perform internal audit.
Thanks to qusys for your informative Post and/or Attachment!
Sponsored Links

  #3  
Old 21st October 2009, 07:18 AM
brahmaiah - 2010 brahmaiah - 2010 is offline
Inactive Registered Visitor

 
Registration Date: Mar 2009
Location: india
 
Posts: 471
Thanks Given to Others: 12
Thanked 101 Times in 72 Posts
Karma Power: 69
Karma: 567
brahmaiah - 2010 is appreciated, and has over 500 Karma points.brahmaiah - 2010 is appreciated, and has over 500 Karma points.brahmaiah - 2010 is appreciated, and has over 500 Karma points.brahmaiah - 2010 is appreciated, and has over 500 Karma points.brahmaiah - 2010 is appreciated, and has over 500 Karma points.brahmaiah - 2010 is appreciated, and has over 500 Karma points.
Re: 8.2.2.5 - Internal auditors

Quote:
In Reply to Parent Post by vitortavares View Post

Hello covers

In the requirement 8.2.2.5 says that “The organization shall have internal auditors...”.

I know that this means that the organization shall have internal auditors that are qualified to perform internal audits to the QMS, manufacturer process and product according to the requirements of the TS, but my doubt is:

It’s desirable to have auditors that are also company workers or have internal auditors that are contracted to perform internal audits.

I hope that your opinions and experiences help me decide this matter.

Thank you in advance.
Internal auditors should be be in the rolls of the organization.In small companies, properly trained TS3 auditors are difficult to get.A practical solution for this problem is to formally appoint a consultant with designation of Internal auditor on contract and carry out internal audit.
V.J.Brahmaiah

__________________

VJBrahmaiah
  #4  
Old 21st October 2009, 12:22 PM
Stijloor's Avatar
Stijloor Stijloor is offline
Cross Forum Moderator

 
Registration Date: May 2003
Location: Charlotte, North Carolina.
 
Posts: 14,235
Thanks Given to Others: 3,161
Thanked 4,463 Times in 3,158 Posts
Karma Power: 1517
Karma: 24874
Stijloor is appreciated, and has over 1700 Karma points.Stijloor is appreciated, and has over 1700 Karma points.Stijloor is appreciated, and has over 1700 Karma points.Stijloor is appreciated, and has over 1700 Karma points.
Stijloor is appreciated, and has over 1700 Karma points.Stijloor is appreciated, and has over 1700 Karma points.Stijloor is appreciated, and has over 1700 Karma points.Stijloor is appreciated, and has over 1700 Karma points.Stijloor is appreciated, and has over 1700 Karma points.Stijloor is appreciated, and has over 1700 Karma points.Stijloor is appreciated, and has over 1700 Karma points.
Re: 8.2.2.5 - Internal auditors

Quote:
In Reply to Parent Post by qusys View Post

<snip> For ISO/TS, it could be different, because internal audit, belongs to the company itself, shall also know customer requirements for the organziation business. So this kind if audit could not be deployed to external outsource. Besides, one CSR of major automotive company ( Ford, Chrysler, GM) also required internal auditors qualified by an external body to perform internal audit.
Not really, I perform internal audits for some of my ISO/TS 16949 certified Clients.
I am an AIAG Certified Supplier Auditor. It has never been an issue.

Stijloor.
Thank You to Stijloor for your informative Post and/or Attachment!
  #5  
Old 21st October 2009, 12:41 PM
AndyN's Avatar
AndyN AndyN is offline
Forum Moderator

 
Registration Date: Feb 2005
Location: Michigan, USA
 
Posts: 7,531
Thanks Given to Others: 4,312
Thanked 3,199 Times in 2,177 Posts
Karma Power: 833
Karma: 21354
AndyN is appreciated, and has over 1700 Karma points.AndyN is appreciated, and has over 1700 Karma points.AndyN is appreciated, and has over 1700 Karma points.
AndyN is appreciated, and has over 1700 Karma points.AndyN is appreciated, and has over 1700 Karma points.AndyN is appreciated, and has over 1700 Karma points.AndyN is appreciated, and has over 1700 Karma points.
Send a message via Skype™ to AndyN
Thumbs up Re: 8.2.2.5 - Internal auditors

Quote:
In Reply to Parent Post by Stijloor View Post

Not really, I perform internal audits for some of my ISO/TS 16949 certified Clients.
I am an AIAG Certified Supplier Auditor. It has never been an issue.

Stijloor.
Excellent point, Jan. Many smaller suppliers in automotive - especially with the current economic stress can only use contracted auditors because often they have the knowledge of those tools CSRs etc.

__________________

'Cause you know sometimes words have two meanings.....
  #6  
Old 21st October 2009, 01:00 PM
Sidney Vianna's Avatar
Sidney Vianna Sidney Vianna is offline
Post Responsibly

 
Registration Date: Oct 2001
Location: California
 
Posts: 7,932
Thanks Given to Others: 1,652
Thanked 4,965 Times in 2,566 Posts
Karma Power: 910
Karma: 33438
Sidney Vianna is appreciated, and has over 1700 Karma points.Sidney Vianna is appreciated, and has over 1700 Karma points.Sidney Vianna is appreciated, and has over 1700 Karma points.
Sidney Vianna is appreciated, and has over 1700 Karma points.Sidney Vianna is appreciated, and has over 1700 Karma points.Sidney Vianna is appreciated, and has over 1700 Karma points.Sidney Vianna is appreciated, and has over 1700 Karma points.Sidney Vianna is appreciated, and has over 1700 Karma points.
Re: The organization shall have internal auditors - 8.2.2.5 - Internal auditors

Quote:
In Reply to Parent Post by vitortavares View Post

It’s desirable to have auditors that are also company workers or have internal auditors that are contracted to perform internal audits.
Check the Your Internal Audit Team: Internal or Hired External? Outsourcing Internal Audits? thread.

There are pros and cons in outsourcing internal audits. If you do decide, however, to outsource internal audits, make sure that this outsourced process is adequately controlled, as required by the TS document.

__________________

Sustainable conformity assessment must add value to all stakeholders
Thanks to Sidney Vianna for your informative Post and/or Attachment!
  #7  
Old 2nd November 2009, 12:18 PM
Jan T Jan T is offline
Registered Visitor

 
Registration Date: Oct 2002
Location: Ontario, Canada
 
Posts: 48
Thanks Given to Others: 119
Thanked 7 Times in 6 Posts
Karma Power: 51
Karma: 50
Jan T has less than 100 Karma points so far.
Re: The organization shall have internal auditors - 8.2.2.5 - Internal auditors

Hi Guys;

You can do both. We are a small company and as such I have be trained as an internal auditor by our Registrar and we have an trained and certified external auditor come in and audit the areas that I am directly responsible for. This has never been a problem.

Regards
Jan
Reply

Lower Navigation Bar
Go Back   The Elsmar Cove Forum > ISO (International Organization for Standardization) Standards > ISO/TS 16949 - International Automotive Quality Systems Standard

Do you find this discussion thread helpful and informational?


Bookmarks


Visitors Currently Viewing this Thread: 1 (0 Registered Visitors (Members) and 1 Unregistered Guest Visitors)
 
Thread Tools Search this Thread
Search this Thread:

Advanced Forum Search
Display Modes Rate Thread Content
Rate Thread Content:

Forum Posting Settings
You may not post new threads
You may not post replies
You may not post attachments
You may not edit your posts

BB code is On
Smilies are On
[IMG] code is On
HTML code is Off


Similar Discussion Threads
Discussion Thread Title Thread Starter Forum Replies Last Post or Poll Vote
Internal Audit Training Material to Train Internal Auditors for ISO9001:2000 bbolden Internal Auditing 28 10th September 2013 04:37 AM
The Minimum Number of Internal Auditors Required in an Organization alvisan Internal Auditing 37 18th October 2007 10:49 PM
ISO 17025 Internal audit - No independent internal auditors amanbhai Internal Auditing 4 28th March 2006 03:14 PM
Does ISO 9001:2000 require Internal Auditors to take a Lead Auditors course? Stuart Andrews Internal Auditing 2 17th October 2002 12:51 PM
Internal Auditor training - Qualifications needed to train internal auditors? tracey Internal Auditing 13 3rd June 2002 09:05 AM



The time now is 08:52 PM. All times are GMT -4.
Your time zone can be changed in your UserCP --> Options.


   


Marc Timothy Smith - Elsmar.com
8466 LeSourdsville-West Chester Road, Olde West Chester, Ohio 45069-1929
513 341-6272