Internal Auditor Training - Who can train other internal auditors in the company?

May a trained and certified internal auditor train other internal auditors in his company?

If so, can it be enough to have one auditor trained by a registrar?
Who else can train internal auditors? What are the requirements for a trainer or a training body?

Anton

Anton,

I'd love to help you. Please give us some more detail as to where you are in this ongoing process.

Also, if I read you correctly, good luck Papa!!!!!

Thank you Al,

I am in Russia. But the situation is hypothetical. I have just been told by a registrar. that it is not necessary to have all the auditors in a company trained by an authorized trainer - for instance a registrar. An already trained internal auditor can train his coleagues himself. It that true?

Anton

[SteelMaiden]

Indeed, Anton, you (or someone in your organization) can provide training to your internal auditors. As long as you say what you are going to do and then follow through with it.

What our system says is:
Training may be provided by an approved vendor source, or an internal trainer with the following qualifications: Internal Auditor Training by an outside source and a minimum of 2 years auditing experience, or RAB Lead Auditor Training.

Some of my cohorts love the "teaching" parts of quality systems management, I usually take the "bring someone in and get it over with approach."

Good Luck and congratulations

This is just an opinion because I'm not sure what standard or specification you are working towards.

I believe that one "formally" trained auditor is essential but not required. Many companies hire out their internal audit function.

In my mind, auditing technique takes precident over actual bare bones knowledge of the standards or specifications in question.

That said,

Someone in the organization needs to know the specifics of the system and how they come into play during any type of audit. This is usually the role of the Management Representative.

[David Mullins]

Originally posted by Anton Ovsianko
May a trined and certified internal auditor train other internal auditors in his company?
If so, can it be enough to have one auditor trained by a registrar?
Who else can train internal auditors? what are the requirements for a trainer or a training body?

1. Yes.
2. Yes.
3. Anyone that can demonstrate competency as an auditor and trainer. (i.e. has the demonstrable skills and experience - and qualifications help)
4. Different countries have different trainer recognition programs. In Australia the lowest recognised level is called "workplace trainer - category one", and is a four day competency (there's that word again) based course which gets you a certificate to say you're a trainer (but not an assessor - that's category two!). These types of courses are generally offered by the lowest rung of tertiary institutions - but are good value.

[Marc]

> I believe that one "formally" trained auditor is essential
> but not required. Many companies hire out their internal
> audit function

Not required is the 'key' word. At least, not by the standard. Someone may have been trained internally at another company and hired in. What the requirement is that you demonstrate that the auditor have some type of combination of training, education, experience.

This said, it is a possiblility that the registrar themselves require it. That's an aspect people seldom talk about. I haven't seen it with respect to auditor training (except in QS situations which tend to push for formal training and 'certification') but one never knows. Registrars do throw in some weird stuff.

When I do an implementation I usually do an internal training course over 2 days. There's always a 'leader' targeted by management to run the show so to that person it's also a 'train the trainer' situation. I also give them the data files for the course. From that they do their future training internally. They generally are asked to read the course and then accompany an auditor on a couple of audits. The auditor then gives the 'OK' and the person's training record is updated to include proficiency displayed by working through the 2 or 3 audits. Like watch the first audit and then do the next audit while the 'trainer' follows if you're doing a 2 step process.

[Marc]

BTW - There's some related info in the following thread to think about. http://Elsmar.com/Forums/showthread.php?t=2332

I don't know if ISO 19011 is being seriously pushed anywhere on any scale.

The ASQ also has their CQA - Certified Quality Auditor program.

I think the formal training programs focus on compliance to the standard as opposed to systems / process audits. I'm not a fan of internal auditors being focused on compliance audits. I would want them focused upon process and systems audits which are more streight forward and meaningful IMHO.