Elsmar Cove Quality and Medical Device Discussions

The Cove Business Standards Discussion Forums More Free Files Forum Discussion Thread Post Attachments Listing Cove Discussion Forums Main Page
UL - Underwriters Laboratories - Health Sciences
Go Back   The Elsmar Cove Business Systems and Standards Discussion Forums > Manufacturing, Service, and Business Systems Processes > Manufacturing and Related Processes
Forum Username

Elsmar Cove Forum Visitor Notice(s)

Wooden Line

AMS2771 - Soak Time Interpretation (Thermal Conditioning) - T6 or T61?


Elsmar XML RSS Feed
Elsmar Cove Forum RSS Feed

Monitor the Elsmar Forum
Sponsor Links



Courtesy Quick Links

Links that Cove visitors will find useful in your quest for knowledge:


International Standards Bodies - World Wide Standards Bodies

ASQ - American Society for Quality

International Standards Organization - ISO Standards and Information

Atul's
Quality Forum Online

Howard's
International Quality Services

Marcelo Antunes'
SQR Consulting, and
Medical Devices Expert Forum

Bob Doering
Bob Doering's Blogs and,
Correct SPC - Precision Machining

NIST's Engineering Statistics Handbook

IRCA - International Register of Certified Auditors

SAE - Society of Automotive Engineers

Quality Digest

IEST - Institute of Environmental Sciences and Technology

Reply
 
Thread Tools Search this Thread Rate Thread Content Display Modes
  Post Number #1  
Old 30th November 2009, 05:00 PM
Sorin's Avatar
Sorin

 
 
Total Posts: 539
Please Help! AMS2771 - Soak Time Interpretation (Thermal Conditioning) - T6 or T61?

AMS 2771 page 11 (and 12) Table 2

Soak times are mentioned either as a single value (and in this case it says minimum) or as a range.

Also, the note 13 says that "Soak times are recommendations, other times may be required depending upon casting configuration and property requirements"

Example:

For A356.0 we have

T6 - 310 deg F - Soak time 3-6 hours
T61 - 310 deg F - Soak time 6-10 hours

If a customer requires T6 condition but in order to obtain the mechanical properties I have to maintain (soak time) for 7 hours, do I certify that as a T6 or T61?

Thank you in advance for help

Sponsored Links
  Post Number #2  
Old 1st December 2009, 03:31 AM
anil123's Avatar
anil123

 
 
Total Posts: 54
Re: AMS2771 - Soak Time Interpretation (Thermal Conditioning) - T6 or T61?

In this case it is better to discuss the matter with customer and finalaze the manufacturing process plan and get the approval from customer. You should not assume anything, get the confirmation by convencing customer regarding the issue.
Thanks to anil123 for your informative Post and/or Attachment!
Sponsored Links

  Post Number #3  
Old 1st December 2009, 03:50 AM
Phiobi's Avatar
Phiobi

 
 
Total Posts: 224
Re: AMS2771 - Soak Time Interpretation (Thermal Conditioning) - T6 or T61?

Quote:
In Reply to Parent Post by sorin View Post

AMS 2771 page 11 (and 12) Table 2

Soak times are mentioned either as a single value (and in this case it says minimum) or as a range.

Also, the note 13 says that "Soak times are recommendations, other times may be required depending upon casting configuration and property requirements"

Example:

For A356.0 we have

T6 - 310 deg F - Soak time 3-6 hours
T61 - 310 deg F - Soak time 6-10 hours

If a customer requires T6 condition but in order to obtain the mechanical properties I have to maintain (soak time) for 7 hours, do I certify that as a T6 or T61?

Thank you in advance for help
Thats a good question and one faced by me all the time. The way I have been looking at it is that we provide a mechanical result which confirms the heat treated condition, therefore if the required heat treatment (to hit the customers required mechanical properties) does not match the spec, I tell them. We then agree to state the base alloy and have the required mechanical properties entered into the contract instead of the heat treated condition.
Thanks to Phiobi for your informative Post and/or Attachment!
  Post Number #4  
Old 1st December 2009, 05:57 AM
anil123's Avatar
anil123

 
 
Total Posts: 54
Re: AMS2771 - Soak Time Interpretation (Thermal Conditioning) - T6 or T61?

Actually when we heat any material due to temeprature and soaking time we get some properties which is also depends on material under consideration.
Hence as a metallurgist, we have to convince the customer with basic principles of metallurgist. definately he will agree.
  Post Number #5  
Old 1st December 2009, 02:58 PM
Caster's Avatar
Caster

 
 
Total Posts: 924
Re: AMS2771 - Soak Time Interpretation (Thermal Conditioning) - T6 or T61?

Quote:
In Reply to Parent Post by sorin View Post

AMS 2771 page 11 (and 12) Table 2
Quote:
In Reply to Parent Post by sorin View Post

For A356.0 we have
T6 - 310 deg F - Soak time 3-6 hours
T61 - 310 deg F - Soak time 6-10 hours
Thank you in advance for help


I did some research into the source of these heat treat time and temperature tables, and it seems they were developed by ALCOA around the WWII time frame. ALCOA has since disowned these tables.

Since that time the rise of lawyers/liability has led to a situation where these original tables are copied but no one dares publish new values in case a component fails and their company is dragged into the lawsuit.

So the times/temperatures listed are very dated and do not take into account metallurgical advancements like modification, chill casting, higher temperature aging and so on.

I think you are right to heat treat to the required properties, and worry less about what it is called.

Do you cut test bars from test castings or are results from separately cast test bars? That is another whole can of worms.
Thanks to Caster for your informative Post and/or Attachment!
  Post Number #6  
Old 1st December 2009, 03:02 PM
Phiobi's Avatar
Phiobi

 
 
Total Posts: 224
Re: AMS2771 - Soak Time Interpretation (Thermal Conditioning) - T6 or T61?

We do both. We use integrally cast bars for routine tests but we also perform cut up analysis. If customers allow then we will append to a casting so that we do not need to destroy a whole casting.

One of our customers calls for 1 cut up for each heat treatment load, we can only HT 6 parts in any 1 load! Very expensive. A pain if we need to resolution!!!
  Post Number #7  
Old 2nd December 2009, 02:48 AM
anil123's Avatar
anil123

 
 
Total Posts: 54
Re: AMS2771 - Soak Time Interpretation (Thermal Conditioning) - T6 or T61?

The normal and pricipally ok practice is to load a HT charge along with cut sample. Then cut sample is tested for metallurgical properties which are the indicative result for that HT charge. This practice is used for each Heat
  Post Number #8  
Old 6th December 2009, 08:45 AM
Sorin's Avatar
Sorin

 
 
Total Posts: 539
Re: AMS2771 - Soak Time Interpretation (Thermal Conditioning) - T6 or T61?

Thank you all for advice....it was more or less what I had/have in mind...I think I just wanted to see if I am on the right path...Thank you again...
Reply

Lower Navigation Bar
Go Back   The Elsmar Cove Business Systems and Standards Discussion Forums > Manufacturing, Service, and Business Systems Processes > Manufacturing and Related Processes

Bookmarks



Visitors Currently Viewing this Thread: 1 (0 Registered Visitors (Members) and 1 Unregistered Guest Visitors)
 
Thread Tools Search this Thread
Search this Thread:

Advanced Forum Search
Display Modes Rate Thread Content
Rate Thread Content:

Forum Posting Settings
You may not post new threads
You may not post replies
You may not post attachments
You may not edit your posts

BB code is On
Smilies are On
[IMG] code is On
HTML code is Off


Similar Discussion Threads
Discussion Thread Title Thread Starter Forum Replies Last Post or Poll Vote
Heat Treatment - Soaking time interpretation Sorin Manufacturing and Related Processes 5 16th June 2016 04:38 PM
AMS2770 Aluminum Heat Treat - Determining Soak Time Mtvated Various Other Specifications, Standards, and related Requirements 1 6th January 2014 03:22 AM
AECQ 200 Revision D vs. Revision C - Thermal Shock & Thermal Cycling OscarG Other ISO and International Standards and European Regulations 2 6th July 2012 07:14 AM
Humidity Pre-Conditioning IEC 60601-1 (2005) EEmags IEC 60601 - Medical Electrical Equipment Safety Standards Series 9 23rd April 2012 03:11 PM
Pre-Conditioning Leakage Current john95 IEC 60601 - Medical Electrical Equipment Safety Standards Series 12 26th March 2011 09:57 PM



The time now is 01:12 PM. All times are GMT -4.
Your time zone can be changed in your UserCP --> Options.


 


NOTE: This forum uses "Cookies"

Elsmar Cove Quality and Medical Device Discussions