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AMS2771 - Soak Time Interpretation (Thermal Conditioning) - T6 or T61?

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  Post Number #1  
Old 30th November 2009, 05:00 PM
sorin's Avatar
sorin

 
 
Total Posts: 527
Please Help! AMS2771 - Soak Time Interpretation (Thermal Conditioning) - T6 or T61?

AMS 2771 page 11 (and 12) Table 2

Soak times are mentioned either as a single value (and in this case it says minimum) or as a range.

Also, the note 13 says that "Soak times are recommendations, other times may be required depending upon casting configuration and property requirements"

Example:

For A356.0 we have

T6 - 310 deg F - Soak time 3-6 hours
T61 - 310 deg F - Soak time 6-10 hours

If a customer requires T6 condition but in order to obtain the mechanical properties I have to maintain (soak time) for 7 hours, do I certify that as a T6 or T61?

Thank you in advance for help

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  Post Number #2  
Old 1st December 2009, 03:31 AM
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anil123

 
 
Total Posts: 54
Re: AMS2771 - Soak Time Interpretation (Thermal Conditioning) - T6 or T61?

In this case it is better to discuss the matter with customer and finalaze the manufacturing process plan and get the approval from customer. You should not assume anything, get the confirmation by convencing customer regarding the issue.
Thanks to anil123 for your informative Post and/or Attachment!
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  Post Number #3  
Old 1st December 2009, 03:50 AM
Phiobi's Avatar
Phiobi

 
 
Total Posts: 224
Re: AMS2771 - Soak Time Interpretation (Thermal Conditioning) - T6 or T61?

Quote:
In Reply to Parent Post by sorin View Post

AMS 2771 page 11 (and 12) Table 2

Soak times are mentioned either as a single value (and in this case it says minimum) or as a range.

Also, the note 13 says that "Soak times are recommendations, other times may be required depending upon casting configuration and property requirements"

Example:

For A356.0 we have

T6 - 310 deg F - Soak time 3-6 hours
T61 - 310 deg F - Soak time 6-10 hours

If a customer requires T6 condition but in order to obtain the mechanical properties I have to maintain (soak time) for 7 hours, do I certify that as a T6 or T61?

Thank you in advance for help
Thats a good question and one faced by me all the time. The way I have been looking at it is that we provide a mechanical result which confirms the heat treated condition, therefore if the required heat treatment (to hit the customers required mechanical properties) does not match the spec, I tell them. We then agree to state the base alloy and have the required mechanical properties entered into the contract instead of the heat treated condition.
Thanks to Phiobi for your informative Post and/or Attachment!
  Post Number #4  
Old 1st December 2009, 05:57 AM
anil123's Avatar
anil123

 
 
Total Posts: 54
Re: AMS2771 - Soak Time Interpretation (Thermal Conditioning) - T6 or T61?

Actually when we heat any material due to temeprature and soaking time we get some properties which is also depends on material under consideration.
Hence as a metallurgist, we have to convince the customer with basic principles of metallurgist. definately he will agree.
  Post Number #5  
Old 1st December 2009, 02:58 PM
Caster's Avatar
Caster

 
 
Total Posts: 924
Re: AMS2771 - Soak Time Interpretation (Thermal Conditioning) - T6 or T61?

Quote:
In Reply to Parent Post by sorin View Post

AMS 2771 page 11 (and 12) Table 2
Quote:
In Reply to Parent Post by sorin View Post

For A356.0 we have
T6 - 310 deg F - Soak time 3-6 hours
T61 - 310 deg F - Soak time 6-10 hours
Thank you in advance for help


I did some research into the source of these heat treat time and temperature tables, and it seems they were developed by ALCOA around the WWII time frame. ALCOA has since disowned these tables.

Since that time the rise of lawyers/liability has led to a situation where these original tables are copied but no one dares publish new values in case a component fails and their company is dragged into the lawsuit.

So the times/temperatures listed are very dated and do not take into account metallurgical advancements like modification, chill casting, higher temperature aging and so on.

I think you are right to heat treat to the required properties, and worry less about what it is called.

Do you cut test bars from test castings or are results from separately cast test bars? That is another whole can of worms.
Thanks to Caster for your informative Post and/or Attachment!
  Post Number #6  
Old 1st December 2009, 03:02 PM
Phiobi's Avatar
Phiobi

 
 
Total Posts: 224
Re: AMS2771 - Soak Time Interpretation (Thermal Conditioning) - T6 or T61?

We do both. We use integrally cast bars for routine tests but we also perform cut up analysis. If customers allow then we will append to a casting so that we do not need to destroy a whole casting.

One of our customers calls for 1 cut up for each heat treatment load, we can only HT 6 parts in any 1 load! Very expensive. A pain if we need to resolution!!!
  Post Number #7  
Old 2nd December 2009, 02:48 AM
anil123's Avatar
anil123

 
 
Total Posts: 54
Re: AMS2771 - Soak Time Interpretation (Thermal Conditioning) - T6 or T61?

The normal and pricipally ok practice is to load a HT charge along with cut sample. Then cut sample is tested for metallurgical properties which are the indicative result for that HT charge. This practice is used for each Heat
  Post Number #8  
Old 6th December 2009, 08:45 AM
sorin's Avatar
sorin

 
 
Total Posts: 527
Re: AMS2771 - Soak Time Interpretation (Thermal Conditioning) - T6 or T61?

Thank you all for advice....it was more or less what I had/have in mind...I think I just wanted to see if I am on the right path...Thank you again...
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