Need to do Internal Audit...No Employees Left!

[Diamondcat]

Hello, I am hoping someone here can give me some insight into how I can handle this situation.

We are an automotive engineering company. Last year we were ISO 9001:2008 certified. At that time we had over 50 employees and we had the following groups:
Management
Sales
Recruiting
Auto Group
Defense Group

So the internal audit and the Conformance audit included all of those groups. Well, within the past year we have lost most of our business and therefore we have only 5 people left.
HR
IT
Recruiter
General Manager/Sales
Me (Internal auditor/Auto designer/Defense designer)

So my question is, how do I do an internal audit to the Auto or Defense groups when I am the only person left in those groups? There has been work done in those groups since the conformance audit so I think they have to be audited. Can I audit myself? Or should I "train" the IT guy to audit and have him audit me?

Thanks!

[Randy]

You don't audit people, you audit the system.

Your solution may be the best you can come up with looking at your situation.

Remember, look at the process not the person.

[AndyN]

And...as long as you don't audit your work, no problem! If you have specific responsibilities in the system that should also be audited, you might look to a local resource to come in and do that - a local ASQ member for example. (if you're located in the USA)

[somashekar]

In Reply to Parent Post by Diamondcat

Hello, I am hoping someone here can give me some insight into how I can handle this situation.

We are an automotive engineering company. Last year we were ISO 9001:2008 certified. At that time we had over 50 employees and we had the following groups:
Management
Sales
Recruiting
Auto Group
Defense Group

So the internal audit and the Conformance audit included all of those groups. Well, within the past year we have lost most of our business and therefore we have only 5 people left.
HR
IT
Recruiter
General Manager/Sales
Me (Internal auditor/Auto designer/Defense designer)

So my question is, how do I do an internal audit to the Auto or Defense groups when I am the only person left in those groups? There has been work done in those groups since the conformance audit so I think they have to be audited. Can I audit myself? Or should I "train" the IT guy to audit and have him audit me?

Thanks!

It is good to have new auditors trained as some trained auditors leave the organization and such new trainees can audit the said functions wherein you are the auditee and this auditing can be part of the learning exercise for the new trained auditor and you as the MR (I presume) assisting him with all transparency and openness. The internal audit is the best mechanism to check, correct and improve your processes and for its best results an unbiased audit is recommended.

[Jennifer Kirley]

In addition to splitting the audit responsibilities up within the remaining people, which is perfectly allowable if they are appropriately qualified, some companies have succeeded with exchanging audit services among each other; a kind of co-op. If you have an ASQ section or other group where you can meet someone else with a similar problem, both of you could be the answer to the other's prayers:

• Skills sre in place (you'd need to record your examining and accepting them, and on what basis)
• It can be way cheaper than training other auditors or hiring out a consultant.
• The outsider, having no familiarity or ties to your company, may find opportunities missed by insiders.

[Diamondcat]

Thanks for the responses!

And...as long as you don't audit your work, no problem!

So if I understand correctly...
I worked in the Defense group where I worked on projects. I used the documented processes to complete those projects.
Then I CAN audit the processes in that group as long as I do not look to any of my projects as evidence of following the process. Correct?
furthermore, as Randy pointed out, I am auditing the Process not the people so technically it shouldn't matter if anyone is left in the group, I should be able to look at the evidence left over to see if the processes were being followed.
Does that sound reasonable?

[AndyN]

Yes! You've got it. No need to train any more auditors, especially given that your org. appears to be going through some tough times! Find someone locally - as Jennifer says, it could work out very well for you.

[Randy]

In the end it's unbiased objectivity and impartiality that's important, not independance.

Of course this last statement will probably ignite a firestorm, but here's the dea........Where does the greater assurance of value rest? In the independance of an auditor who is biased and unobjective during the audit or in an auditor that though not independant of the process can exhibit an unbiased, objective and impartial approach?

Of course you didn't mention what type of MS you are auditing and there could be complications and therin lies the problem....While ISO standards like 9001 are for any organization any size, the auditing requirement (8.2.2) comes into conflict with the Standard's Scope (1) and Application (1.2) not taking into consideration the single person company or many other small organizations in their ability to meet the requirements.

Do what works for you while doing your best to meet applicable requirements.