Personal Notes on Production Floor vs. Documented Work Instructions

[Sidney Vianna]

In Reply to Parent Post by sorin

I can attest (documented) for at least 10000 $ CAN of scrap due to operating set-ups from memory and based on PERSONAL notes.

Like they say: once bitten, twice shy. Can you quantify (monetarily) the lost time in productivity because operators are not producing, wasting spending time going to a remote bench to find the proper work instruction data that should be readily available to them?

The reality is this: There are all kinds of systems out there; good ones and bad ones. There are good systems where the operators have ALL they need, readily available, including work instructions. And there are TERRIBLE systems out there, as well; systems where the operator HAS to rely on personal notes to get the job done RIGHT, because the revision of work instructions take longer than it should.

There are personal notes that exist for very good reasons and help to get the job done. There are notes that only exist because the operator is a lazy individual and brings all kind of risks to the integrity of the job.

Me, Jim and a few others are saying: before you BAN the practice of personal notes, try to understand why they exist. It can be the case of the system putting impediments to the operators performing their work effectively and efficiently. The note might be a work around the problem, in order to get the job done. Until the system is fixed, the notes might add value. Not only to the operator, but to the organization.

Sorin and Bobdoering are saying: I really don't care if there is a good reason or not for notes to exist. They are prohibited. End of discussion.

Very telling about how the two sides stand on the "people involvement" principle of ISO 9000.

[bobdoering]

In Reply to Parent Post by Sidney Vianna

Sorin and Bobdoering are saying: I really don't care if there is a good reason or not for notes to exist. They are prohibited. End of discussion.

You are either oversimplifying my position or missing the point altogether. I agree, try to understand why they exist - then eliminate the systemic problem that contributes to their existence. Do that with the goal to eliminate them because they do pose a real risk, as there is no system to ensure they are correct.

Now you can end the discussion.

[JoCam]

It's quite simple. Whatever is being jotted onto these notes to assist the Operators, jog their memory, make things easier or whatever other reason exists should be put into the form of a controlled, approved document and positioned at the point of use. In these situations I use "single point lessons", which are usually one laminated page illustrating the necessary information, sometimes with the aid of photographs or drawings.

In situations where parameters may need to be adjusted from those specified in the associated work instruction, or indeed the single point lesson, the jottings should be entered onto the relevant job pack or works order for historical reasons.

Whatever method is chosen, the output is a controlled process, something that handwritten, uncontrolled notes do not signify.

[sorin]

In Reply to Parent Post by Sidney Vianna

Very telling about how the two sides stand on the "people involvement" principle of ISO 9000.

Very strong in this post is the bias....how about accepting that we are not single holders of the absolute truth?

Do I feel that there is no place to accept one position without getting the stigma?

[SteelMaiden]

I think a lot of information is being read into these discussions. Did anybody say that people were having to go to "remote" locations to get work instructions? If so, ISO requirements are not being met. There were other comments about memory being the same as notes...come on, how far can we take that?

People do memorize how to do their jobs, that is why a system needs to have some process in place to notify people when their work instructions, or whatever you want to call them, change. If you allow every operator to create their own set of notes, why would you bother to create work instructions?

How do we know that people are doing their work per the documented procedures and work instructions? Well, that is why supervisors should be dealing with their folks every day, to see if things need changes, or to make sure that people are following procedure. We also have competency and qualification review.

If there is a written procedure or work instruction in place, and you are following some set of uncontrolled notes, you are not in compliance to the standard. If you have notes to remind you to do things that are not otherwise documented in your quality system, knock yourself out.

[Sidney Vianna]

In Reply to Parent Post by Sidney Vianna

Sorin and Bobdoering are saying: I really don't care if there is a good reason or not for notes to exist. They are prohibited. End of discussion.

In Reply to Parent Post by bobdoering

You are either oversimplifying my position or missing the point altogether.

In Reply to Parent Post by sorin

Very strong in this post is the bias....how about accepting that we are not single holders of the absolute truth?

Do I feel that there is no place to accept one position without getting the stigma?

If you feel that I misrepresented the summary of your positions about allowing notes in the workplace, please go right ahead and provide your own summary. But, based on what I read from your posts, that is what I understood your position is.

[samsung]

In Reply to Parent Post by sorin

Very strong in this post is the bias....how about accepting that we are not single holders of the absolute truth?

Absolutely true.

[Sidney Vianna]

In Reply to Parent Post by samsung

Absolutely true.

How ironic. Who in this discussion seems to be the bearer of the "indisputable truth"?

The one that says

There is no place in the system for personal notes

or the ones that say

Notes might be beneficial, in absence of an effective system

The first does not want rebuttal to the mandate. The second one stipulates that there might be valid reasons for the "unwanted" notes. Which approach is the totalitarian one?