ACPAC Accounting System Generated Forms - Part of ISO?

[mvanzijl5]

I took over the management of a QMS that had been run as a crisis ISO. (Only received any attention 1 month before the External Audit.)

As part of the manufacturing process a Manufacturing Order (MO) is generated on computer from the ACPAC accounting system. This form then accompanies the manufactured item to the end of the line. Problem is, this process is no where described nor is the MO described anywhere.

This document needs to be controlled though. Do I give this document a QMS no. as the financial department is excluded from the QMS?

It seems to me that there are many people like me who got given the job because you seem the most qualified person to get this thing to work (really because no one else wants to do it). You land in this job with two weeks formal training and then it is expected of you to perform miracles.
Perhaps this is a subject for another time.

[Stijloor]

What is the actual purpose of the Manufacturing Order (MO)? Do operators make entries on this form? Does it contain certain instructions? If yes, then it should be controlled.

You stated that the financial department is excluded. Do they have in any way an impact on the customer? Would it be important for them to send complete, correct invoices to the customer on time?

Wishing you the very best with this tough assignment.

Keep in mind, our Members are ready to lend you a hand.

Stijloor.

[mvanzijl5]

In Reply to Parent Post by Stijloor

What is the actual purpose of the Manufacturing Order (MO)? Do operators make entries on this form? Does it contain certain instructions? If yes, then it should be controlled.

You stated that the financial department is excluded. Do they have in any way an impact on the customer? Would it be important for them to send complete, correct invoices to the customer on time?

Wishing you the very best with this tough assignment.

Keep in mind, our Members are ready to lend you a hand.

Stijloor.

The actual description is: "MO Routing Card". Attached to this are the Assembly instructions, schematic and Bill of Materials (Pick list). In case this instruction is handed to one of the permanent manufacturing sub-contractors, also an annexure to the sub-contractor service agreement which is to be signed by the sub-contractor.

Yes the financial department is very much part of the process. My argument exactly. But, they company is being re-certified in March after which I will climb this mountain. Thus far, the external auditors did not raise this point.

[Craig H.]

Although generated by accounting software, the MO is NOT a financial document if it describes what is to be made and is used for instruction (specs, maybe even?) by the folks on the factory floor. Do you have someone arguing that it should be excluded from the QMS?

[mvanzijl5]

The argument is that the financial department is already audited by external body and should not necessarily be audited by another auditor. That then spells out:"no interference".

My argument is that any system that "dictates" to "my" system needs to be audited. (This is my argumentative side). I cannot describe this specific process without mentioning the MO, and the process runs through and ends up on the accountant's table. Perhaps the way out is to just mention that the document is generated electronically by the ACPAC system?

Is it perhaps not a case of not seeing the wood for the trees? Problem remains; how do I control the format of the MO? The format can be changed by a person who has no interest in a prescribed process next door.

[Craig H.]

In Reply to Parent Post by mvanzijl5

The argument is that the financial department is already audited by external body and should not necessarily be audited by another auditor. That then spells out:"no interference".

My argument is that any system that "dictates" to "my" system needs to be audited. (This is my argumentative side). I cannot describe this specific process without mentioning the MO, and the process runs through and ends up on the accountant's table. Perhaps the way out is to just mention that the document is generated electronically by the ACPAC system?

Is it perhaps not a case of not seeing the wood for the trees? Problem remains; how do I control the format of the MO? The format can be changed by a person who has no interest in a prescribed process next door.

Really? Can the accounting/finance department provide copies of financial audit reports where the MO was completely covered? Doubt it.

Someone senses that their silo is under attack. So, if they are entrenched and will not cooperate AND if the MO dictates what is made, how it is made, and who makes it, it is time to get others involved. Like your boss. Like their boss.

If, as I stated, your process is dictated by the MO, your vision is fine.