Document Nomenclature - Can you call WI (Work Instructions) a QMS?

[wweng7]

Start with gap analysis and take from there. There are plenty examples on the cove.

[Chance]

In Reply to Parent Post by Marc

We can help!

Yes thanks a lot for your help Marc.
I realized that they call their procedure as working instruction - it details the process and it includes :
Purpose
Scope
Definitions
Responsiblity
Action steps
Reference Documents

And the procedure mentions a lot of reference documents to perform the process and they call it as supporting documents. Now when I took a look on their WI, I verified what their reference doc is and found out that for example:

WI: XXX Purchasing
Effective date: 02-Jan-2008
Action step: Refer to supporting document no. 123 for your next process.
But the supporting doc has not yet become effective until ex: 04-April-2009

My finding : How could you perform that WI step if your reference document has not been yet effective a year later which is 04-April-2009. That means not until 04-April-2009 that supporting document, there is no telling what is the status of it. Yet it has been used as a process to perform the job indicated in WI XXX Purchasing (effective date 02-Jan-2008)

Marc, please comment. Thanks!

[Chance]

In Reply to Parent Post by Richard Pike

No offense - but if you were hired as a manager - to assist with ISO -you have some previous experience?

This forum is fantastic - but cannot teach the role of a Man Rep!

Can i suggest you get some help from a consultant - privately - if you don't want your employer to know you cant do the job for which you were hired.

This Cove has helped me tremendously. So if you won't mind to help me.

[Chance]

In Reply to Parent Post by Chance

Yes thanks a lot for your help Marc.
I realized that they call their procedure as working instruction - it details the process and it includes :
Purpose
Scope
Definitions
Responsiblity
Action steps
Reference Documents

And the procedure mentions a lot of reference documents to perform the process and they call it as supporting documents. Now when I took a look on their WI, I verified what their reference doc is and found out that for example:

WI: XXX Purchasing
Effective date: 02-Jan-2008
Action step: Refer to supporting document no. 123 for your next process.
But the supporting doc has not yet become effective until ex: 04-April-2009

My finding : How could you perform that WI step if your reference document has not been yet effective a year later which is 04-April-2009. That means not until 04-April-2009 that supporting document, there is no telling what is the status of it. Yet it has been used as a process to perform the job indicated in WI XXX Purchasing (effective date 02-Jan-2008)

Marc, please comment. Thanks!

Anybody there, I would be happy to know what your thoughts are.

[Marc]

If a document was written earlier than a document it calls out, there is a question of what was happening. Was the system in development at the time? Are you sure you're not referring to a revision date vs. the date the procedure was first released?

As a second aspect, one is dated 2009 and the first 2008. As long as everything now (2010) fits it's not going to be a big deal. The auditor may have a question, but going back in time and writing a company up for something long past would be a stretch. That was then, now is now.

[Chance]

In Reply to Parent Post by Marc

If a document was written earlier than a document it calls out, there is a question of what was happening. Was the system in development at the time? Are you sure you're not referring to a revision date vs. the date the procedure was first released?

As a second aspect, one is dated 2009 and the first 2008. As long as everything now (2010) fits it's not going to be a big deal. The auditor may have a question, but going back in time and writing a company up for something long past would be a stretch. That was then, now is now.

The first document (which is WI) become effective in 2008 and calls for a supporting document which only become effective in 2009.
And I am talking about the actual effective dates here Marc, these are not revision dates. In fact, the 2009 supporting document has not been revised yet.

Actually, the WI (2008) is still in use now in 2010. I am sure they are still developing at that time. Should I align the dates for example change all dates to 2010 to be consistent or leave it as it is.

[Marc]

In Reply to Parent Post by Richard Pike

No offense - but if you were hired as a manager - to assist with ISO -you have some previous experience?

This forum is fantastic - but cannot teach the role of a Man Rep!

Can i suggest you get some help from a consultant - privately - if you don't want your employer to know you cant do the job for which you were hired.

Many times companies hire, or put someone into a position, they do not have any background in. There are many threads here where someone posts and asks questions about how to do a job they don't have a background in. That doesn't mean we can't try to help the person.

In Reply to Parent Post by Chance

This Cove has helped me tremendously. So if you won't mind to help me. You better not tell me what to do. DOn't judge others!

Usually someone will try to help when they can. Richard posted something which is his opinion. Personally I believe one can learn a lot here. Richard doesn't know your circumstances. He doesn't appear to understand that many people are put into positions they are new to and have little or no background in.

None the less, it is important that you (or anyone else) *NOT* strike back with comments like "You better not tell me what to do. DOn't judge others!". All that does is start a personal fight.

[Marc]

In Reply to Parent Post by Chance

The first document (which is WI) become effective in 2008 and calls for a supporting document which only become effective in 2009.
And I am talking about the actual effective dates here Marc, these are not revision dates. In fact, the 2009 supporting document has not been revised yet.

Actually, the WI (2008) is still in use now in 2010. I am sure they are still developing at that time. Should I align the dates for example change all dates to 2010 to be consistent or leave it as it is.

1. You can not simply change the dates. You must revise them in accordance with your document control system requirements.
2. Audit the documents and see if they reflect what is being done. If they do not, revise them.

In short, you should be following your document control system for all changes to controlled documents.