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bolts, certificate of analysis (c of a), certificate of conformance (c of c), material certifications, receiving inspection, supplier requirements, suppliers (general topics)
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  #1  
Old 19th June 2010, 05:13 AM
Terry Terry is offline
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Question Is Material Certification Required for Incoming Material (Receiving) Inspection?

dear all,
I have a question to ask for you, if material certification shall be required to provide us when we do material incoming inspection? since i entered my company, i found all material we used without certificate, recently a kind of bolt have quality problen, i want to do mechanical analysis and chemical analysis and find material certificate to verify test results, but i found all materials we used is no certificate. I adviced my manager if materail certificcate should be required to provide us when we do material incoming inspection, but my manager said,' it is unneccessary and meaningless'

do you have any suggestions to me about this problem? if we shoud require the supplier to provide material certificate to us when we do material incoming inspection?

our production is construction equipmet

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Old 19th June 2010, 05:24 AM
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Re: Is material certification required for incoming material inspection?

It depends on your management's decision or wish. If needed, they should be specified (all relevant technical specifications) in your purchasing documents or contract. As a good practice, you should insist on it for all the relevant parts.
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Old 19th June 2010, 06:54 AM
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Re: Is material certification required for incoming material inspection?

Quote:
In Reply to Parent Post by Terry.cai View Post

dear all,
I have a question to ask for you, if material certification shall be required to provide us when we do material incoming inspection? since i entered my company, i found all material we used without certificate, recently a kind of bolt have quality problen, i want to do mechanical analysis and chemical analysis and find material certificate to verify test results, but i found all materials we used is no certificate. I adviced my manager if materail certificcate should be required to provide us when we do material incoming inspection, but my manager said,' it is unneccessary and meaningless'

do you have any suggestions to me about this problem? if we shoud require the supplier to provide material certificate to us when we do material incoming inspection?

our production is construction equipmet

Normally I would request Certificate of Conformance (COC or COA) from my supplier in order to ensure that it complies with our requirements.
Maybe your manager think it is meaningless because he thinks that supplier will quote "pass" result regardless of whether the material is "pass" or "fail". This is quite common for some of the supplier. But even so, you still have the right to request for COC or COA from them. It is suppliers responsibility to test and verify product supplied are fulfilling customer requirements.
Unless if you have the testing capability in your premises that acceptance of parts is solely based on your in house testing result (without consider suppliers result at all), then the COC and COA can considered as meaningless.
  #4  
Old 19th June 2010, 07:37 AM
Umang Vidyarthi Umang Vidyarthi is offline
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Let Me Help You Re: Is Material Certification Required for Incoming Material (Receiving) Inspection?

Quote:
In Reply to Parent Post by Terry.cai View Post

dear all,
I have a question to ask for you, if material certification shall be required to provide us when we do material incoming inspection? since i entered my company, i found all material we used without certificate, recently a kind of bolt have quality problen, i want to do mechanical analysis and chemical analysis and find material certificate to verify test results, but i found all materials we used is no certificate. I adviced my manager if materail certificcate should be required to provide us when we do material incoming inspection, but my manager said,' it is unneccessary and meaningless'

do you have any suggestions to me about this problem? if we shoud require the supplier to provide material certificate to us when we do material incoming inspection?

our production is construction equipmet
As Harry has said it is upto the management to decide. We insist on 'Material test certificate' from all raw material suppliers for steel, copper & alluminium. Sometimes the suppliers issue MTC of old batch if the report of current batch is not upto the mark. To counter this, we send the samples to accreditated labs for cross check, and blacklist the erring supplier.

The finished goods we buy from branded suppliers, so MTC is not needed. Yet we run a cross check once in a while.

You may incorporate this as a condition in your 'Purchase order' and your supplier will be bound to provide the MTC.

Umang

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Thanks to Umang Vidyarthi for your informative Post and/or Attachment!
  #5  
Old 19th June 2010, 10:28 AM
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Re: Is Material Certification Required for Incoming Material (Receiving) Inspection?

Quote:
In Reply to Parent Post by Umang Vidyarthi View Post

As Harry has said it is upto the management to decide. We insist on 'Material test certificate' from all raw material suppliers for steel, copper & alluminium. Sometimes the suppliers issue MTC of old batch if the report of current batch is not upto the mark. To counter this, we send the samples to accreditated labs for cross check, and blacklist the erring supplier.

The finished goods we buy from branded suppliers, so MTC is not needed. Yet we run a cross check once in a while.

You may incorporate this as a condition in your 'Purchase order' and your supplier will be bound to provide the MTC.

Umang
This certainly comes from your internal requirement and has to be mentioned within your purchasing information. As far as materials go, your selection of a specific material for a specific part is based on your requirements and the selected material properties. On routine supplies this is not assessed by the purchasing company (constraints would most likely be the resources) and as a good practice you expect and ASK the supplier to furnish it along with the supplied parts to meet conformance to used material. As also said in post #4 it is a good practice to periodically get the material tested for requirements from a third party lab. Perhaps your supplier who uses the material could get the same from the source of raw material or himself get the material tested from a third party lab for his incoming requirement. This could be shared with you along with the parts that he makes and supplies to you. It is a good practice to make sure that your supplier marks on the material certificate the references of supplies he makes for you and certifies same to have a good traceability.

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Last edited by somashekar; 19th June 2010 at 11:19 AM.
  #6  
Old 19th June 2010, 05:42 PM
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Re: Is Material Certification Required for Incoming Material (Receiving) Inspection?

Quote:
In Reply to Parent Post by Terry.cai View Post

dear all,
I have a question to ask for you, if material certification shall be required to provide us when we do material incoming inspection? since i entered my company, i found all material we used without certificate, recently a kind of bolt have quality problen, i want to do mechanical analysis and chemical analysis and find material certificate to verify test results, but i found all materials we used is no certificate. I adviced my manager if materail certificcate should be required to provide us when we do material incoming inspection, but my manager said,' it is unneccessary and meaningless'

do you have any suggestions to me about this problem? if we shoud require the supplier to provide material certificate to us when we do material incoming inspection?

our production is construction equipmet
The members that answered before me have pretty much given all the usual and reasonable advices...

However, with all the respect, I sure wish anyone that works in and/or buy construction equipment to witness this little comment coming from your manager. Specifically, that having a material certification for purchased raw materials is "unnecessary and meaningless".

...sigh...

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  #7  
Old 19th June 2010, 06:17 PM
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Re: Is Material Certification Required for Incoming Material (Receiving) Inspection?

Quote:
In Reply to Parent Post by Terry.cai View Post

dear all,
I have a question to ask for you, if material certification shall be required to provide us when we do material incoming inspection? since i entered my company, i found all material we used without certificate, recently a kind of bolt have quality problen, i want to do mechanical analysis and chemical analysis and find material certificate to verify test results, but i found all materials we used is no certificate. I adviced my manager if materail certificcate should be required to provide us when we do material incoming inspection, but my manager said,' it is unneccessary and meaningless'

do you have any suggestions to me about this problem? if we shoud require the supplier to provide material certificate to us when we do material incoming inspection?

our production is construction equipmet
Terry, please don't take offense with my response, but, due to numerous quality problem cases, many people in the West are suspicious about the quality of many products originating from China. Cases abound of poor quality from products coming from there. Even within China, people question workmanship. For example, when so many schools collapsed during the 2008 Sichuan earthquake, killing so many kids, there was an uproar in your country about shoddy construction standards.

So, there is no easy answer for your question. The key issue is confidence that you are getting the material/product/equipment you ordered and need. You mentioned already that you had a problem with a specific bolt. If your manager does not believe that you need to have means to ascertain the quality of the incoming product, he is an ignorant individual.

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Old 19th June 2010, 06:50 PM
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Re: Is Material Certification Required for Incoming Material (Receiving) Inspection?

I think it is also important to audit your supplier or have in place to monitor them.
Do you make a performance evaluation ( score card) on a certain time base??
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