The Elsmar Cove Wiki More Free Files The Elsmar Cove Forums Discussion Thread Index Post Attachments Listing Failure Modes Services and Solutions to Problems Elsmar cove Forums Main Page Elsmar Cove Home Page
Go Back   The Elsmar Cove Forum > ISO (International Organization for Standardization) Standards > ISO 9000, ISO 9001, and ISO 9004 - Quality Management Systems > ISO 9000, ISO 9001, and ISO 9004 - Questions and Discussions
Forum Username

Elsmar Cove Forum Visitor Notice(s)


Search the Elsmar Cove
Custom Search
Monitor the Elsmar Forum
Follow Marc & Elsmar
Elsmar Cove Forum RSS Feed  Marc Smith's Google+ Page  Marc Smith's Linked In Page   Marc Smith's Elsmar Cove YouTube Page  Marc Smith's Facebook Page  Elsmar Cove Twitter Feed
Elsmar Cove Groups
Elsmar Cove Google+ Group  Elsmar Cove LinkedIn Group  Elsmar Cove Facebook Group
Sponsor Links





Donate and $ Contributor Forum Access
Courtesy Quick Links

Links that Elsmar Cove visitors will find useful in your quest for knowledge:

Howard's
International Quality Services
Marcelo Antunes'
SQR Consulting
Bob Doering's
Correct SPC - Precision Machining

NIST's Engineering Statistics Handbook
IRCA - International Register of Certified Auditors
SAE - Society of Automotive Engineers
Quality Digest Portal
IEST - Institute of Environmental Sciences and Technology
ASQ - American Society for Quality

Related Topic Tags
8d problem solving, corrective action (ca)
Reply
 
Thread Tools Search this Thread Rating: Thread Rating: 1 votes, 5.00 average. Display Modes
  #1  
Old 29th July 2010, 02:24 AM
YAZIDM's Avatar
YAZIDM YAZIDM is offline
Getting Involved (6 to 9 Posts)

 
Registration Date: Jul 2010
Location: Malaysia
 
Posts: 9
Thanks Given to Others: 4
Thanked 0 Times in 0 Posts
Karma Power: 16
Karma: 10
YAZIDM has less than 100 Karma points so far.
Send a message via Yahoo to YAZIDM
Please Help! 5D and 8D as an option, can it be both or one of them in the system?

Hi,
Our system just practice 5D as for our Corrective Action record. Since most of the customer asking for 8D, should i remove 5D from the procedure and replace it with 8D or is it possible to have both? My boss is asking can it be both in the procedure since he want the 5D to be used internally.

Sponsored Links
  #2  
Old 29th July 2010, 03:45 AM
qusys qusys is offline
Appreciated Information Resource

 
Registration Date: Mar 2008
 
Posts: 2,162
Thanks Given to Others: 230
Thanked 706 Times in 620 Posts
Karma Power: 249
Karma: 4238
qusys is appreciated, and has over 1700 Karma points.
qusys is appreciated, and has over 1700 Karma points.qusys is appreciated, and has over 1700 Karma points.qusys is appreciated, and has over 1700 Karma points.qusys is appreciated, and has over 1700 Karma points.qusys is appreciated, and has over 1700 Karma points.qusys is appreciated, and has over 1700 Karma points.qusys is appreciated, and has over 1700 Karma points.qusys is appreciated, and has over 1700 Karma points.qusys is appreciated, and has over 1700 Karma points.
Re: 5D and 8D as an option, can it be both or one of them in the system?

Quote:
In Reply to Parent Post by YAZIDM View Post

Hi,
Our system just practice 5D as for our Corrective Action record. Since most of the customer asking for 8D, should i remove 5D from the procedure and replace it with 8D or is it possible to have both? My boss is asking can it be both in the procedure since he want the 5D to be used internally.
Personally I do not know 5D methodology. Most common is 8D , well known in the automotive industry. This is a standards adopted by mostly company, in order to have a common ground on corrective actions process.
My suggestion is to use 8D methodology also for internal purpose in order to be eventually accustomed to do it in case of external issue.Be also prepared in training the personnel and declare it in the documented procedure.

Last edited by Stijloor; 29th July 2010 at 05:20 AM. Reason: Typo
Sponsored Links

  #3  
Old 29th July 2010, 04:10 AM
JaneB's Avatar
JaneB JaneB is offline
Consultant / Auditor

 
Registration Date: Feb 2006
Location: Melbourne, Australia
 
Posts: 3,512
Thanks Given to Others: 1,396
Thanked 1,770 Times in 1,154 Posts
Karma Power: 408
Karma: 11857
JaneB is appreciated, and has over 1700 Karma points.JaneB is appreciated, and has over 1700 Karma points.JaneB is appreciated, and has over 1700 Karma points.
JaneB is appreciated, and has over 1700 Karma points.JaneB is appreciated, and has over 1700 Karma points.JaneB is appreciated, and has over 1700 Karma points.JaneB is appreciated, and has over 1700 Karma points.JaneB is appreciated, and has over 1700 Karma points.JaneB is appreciated, and has over 1700 Karma points.JaneB is appreciated, and has over 1700 Karma points.JaneB is appreciated, and has over 1700 Karma points.JaneB is appreciated, and has over 1700 Karma points.JaneB is appreciated, and has over 1700 Karma points.JaneB is appreciated, and has over 1700 Karma points.JaneB is appreciated, and has over 1700 Karma points.JaneB is appreciated, and has over 1700 Karma points.JaneB is appreciated, and has over 1700 Karma points.JaneB is appreciated, and has over 1700 Karma points.
Re: 5D and 8D as an option, can it be both or one of them in the system?

Quote:
In Reply to Parent Post by YAZIDM View Post

Hi,
Our system just practice 5D as for our Corrective Action record. Since most of the customer asking for 8D, should i remove 5D from the procedure and replace it with 8D or is it possible to have both? My boss is asking can it be both in the procedure since he want the 5D to be used internally.
What are the elements of your 5D procedure?

If you use both, but your customers ask for the 8D one, how will you ensure that you use the 8D one for them? Is this only iif/when they insist?

__________________

For most of history, Anonymous was a woman. - Virginia Woolf
  #4  
Old 29th July 2010, 09:13 PM
YAZIDM's Avatar
YAZIDM YAZIDM is offline
Getting Involved (6 to 9 Posts)

 
Registration Date: Jul 2010
Location: Malaysia
 
Posts: 9
Thanks Given to Others: 4
Thanked 0 Times in 0 Posts
Karma Power: 16
Karma: 10
YAZIDM has less than 100 Karma points so far.
Send a message via Yahoo to YAZIDM
Re: 5D and 8D as an option, can it be both or one of them in the system?

Hi Jane / qusys,
Actually this is the first time I saw 5D, fyi, I’m the freshie new guy who taking care the QMS.
Our 5D consist;
D1: Define the Problem
D2: Define & Verify the Root Cause(s)
D3: Identify & Verify Proposed Permanent Corrective Action
D4: Implement Permanent Corrective Action
D5: Action to Prevent Re-occurrence

While for 8D;
D1: Identify Team Member/Roles & Responsibilities
D2. Define the Problem
D3. Implement & Verify Interim Containment Actions(s)
D4. Define & Verify Root Cause(s)
D5. Identify & Verify Proposed Permanent Corrective Action(s)
D6. Implement Permanent Corrective Action(s)
D7. Action(s) to Prevent Re-Occurrence
D8. Communicate Results & Recognize Team


As we all well know, nowadays ALL customers demanding 8D. But my supr. asking me whether is it possible to have them both in the system, reason is 5D for internal use and 8D for external. To me, i will agree with qusys....I’m not sure about this.
The procedure only mentions one report that is 5D. My boss wants them both which is ‘as an option’. My concern is will I face any problem in future especially during audits? I believe it’s explainable as what my boss said, but in term of requirement or possibility or necessary maybe logic? Beside "add-in" 8D as an option, should I amend anything on the procedure? Please review attachment. Were gonna arrange Internal audit this coming sept and ISO audit is soon after that.
thanks in advance
Attached Files: 1. Scan for viruses before using, 2. Please report any 'bad' files by Reporting this post, 3. Use at your Own Risk.
File Type: pdf QA,PROC-13-01,MAL EDI 1 Corrective Action_.pdf (54.1 KB, 265 views)
File Type: pdf QA,PROC-13-03,MAL EDI 1 Customer Complain.pdf (134.9 KB, 103 views)

Last edited by YAZIDM; 29th July 2010 at 09:24 PM. Reason: add info
  #5  
Old 29th July 2010, 09:37 PM
Duke Okes Duke Okes is offline
Courtesy Access

 
Registration Date: Jun 2006
Location: TN
 
Posts: 808
Thanks Given to Others: 8
Thanked 344 Times in 245 Posts
Karma Power: 120
Karma: 4336
Duke Okes is appreciated, and has over 1700 Karma points.
Duke Okes is appreciated, and has over 1700 Karma points.Duke Okes is appreciated, and has over 1700 Karma points.Duke Okes is appreciated, and has over 1700 Karma points.Duke Okes is appreciated, and has over 1700 Karma points.Duke Okes is appreciated, and has over 1700 Karma points.Duke Okes is appreciated, and has over 1700 Karma points.Duke Okes is appreciated, and has over 1700 Karma points.Duke Okes is appreciated, and has over 1700 Karma points.Duke Okes is appreciated, and has over 1700 Karma points.Duke Okes is appreciated, and has over 1700 Karma points.
Re: 5D and 8D as an option, can it be both or one of them in the system?

There's nothing wrong with using multiple models, but as some have pointed out, people need to know which to use when.

To me the 5D is simply the 8D without use of a team. Many problems do not require a team.
Thanks to Duke Okes for your informative Post and/or Attachment!
  #6  
Old 29th July 2010, 10:48 PM
harry harry is offline
Super Moderator

 
Registration Date: Sep 2005
Location: Johore/Malaysia
 
Posts: 6,222
Thanks Given to Others: 1,479
Thanked 2,941 Times in 2,045 Posts
Blog Entries: 2
Karma Power: 694
Karma: 18645
harry is appreciated, and has over 1700 Karma points.harry is appreciated, and has over 1700 Karma points.
harry is appreciated, and has over 1700 Karma points.harry is appreciated, and has over 1700 Karma points.harry is appreciated, and has over 1700 Karma points.harry is appreciated, and has over 1700 Karma points.harry is appreciated, and has over 1700 Karma points.harry is appreciated, and has over 1700 Karma points.
Re: 5D and 8D as an option, can it be both or one of them in the system?

Quote:
In Reply to Parent Post by YAZIDM View Post

................. should i remove 5D from the procedure and replace it with 8D or is it possible to have both?....................
You had literally paint yourself into a corner or tie your own hands. Your procedures shouldn't be that restrictive. It should just mention the use of appropriate problem solving techniques - bearing in mind that the different techniques or methods are useful into different situations.
Thank You to harry for your informative Post and/or Attachment!
  #7  
Old 29th July 2010, 10:50 PM
JaneB's Avatar
JaneB JaneB is offline
Consultant / Auditor

 
Registration Date: Feb 2006
Location: Melbourne, Australia
 
Posts: 3,512
Thanks Given to Others: 1,396
Thanked 1,770 Times in 1,154 Posts
Karma Power: 408
Karma: 11857
JaneB is appreciated, and has over 1700 Karma points.JaneB is appreciated, and has over 1700 Karma points.JaneB is appreciated, and has over 1700 Karma points.
JaneB is appreciated, and has over 1700 Karma points.JaneB is appreciated, and has over 1700 Karma points.JaneB is appreciated, and has over 1700 Karma points.JaneB is appreciated, and has over 1700 Karma points.JaneB is appreciated, and has over 1700 Karma points.JaneB is appreciated, and has over 1700 Karma points.JaneB is appreciated, and has over 1700 Karma points.JaneB is appreciated, and has over 1700 Karma points.JaneB is appreciated, and has over 1700 Karma points.JaneB is appreciated, and has over 1700 Karma points.JaneB is appreciated, and has over 1700 Karma points.JaneB is appreciated, and has over 1700 Karma points.JaneB is appreciated, and has over 1700 Karma points.JaneB is appreciated, and has over 1700 Karma points.JaneB is appreciated, and has over 1700 Karma points.
Re: 5D and 8D as an option, can it be both or one of them in the system?

Quote:
In Reply to Parent Post by Duke Okes View Post

There's nothing wrong with using multiple models, but as some have pointed out, people need to know which to use when.

To me the 5D is simply the 8D without use of a team. Many problems do not require a team.
Excellent advice, with which I agree.

I don't see it as a divide between 'external' and 'internal' use - why should or would it be. Some issues require a team approach, with others it would be overkill.

Key point is to be clear about who decides which approach is to be used when - eg, a manager deciding (NOT someone deciding on the basis of which is 'easiest'.

__________________

For most of history, Anonymous was a woman. - Virginia Woolf
Thanks to JaneB for your informative Post and/or Attachment!
  #8  
Old 29th July 2010, 11:29 PM
YAZIDM's Avatar
YAZIDM YAZIDM is offline
Getting Involved (6 to 9 Posts)

 
Registration Date: Jul 2010
Location: Malaysia
 
Posts: 9
Thanks Given to Others: 4
Thanked 0 Times in 0 Posts
Karma Power: 16
Karma: 10
YAZIDM has less than 100 Karma points so far.
Send a message via Yahoo to YAZIDM
Re: 5D and 8D as an option, can it be both or one of them in the system?

Quote:
In Reply to Parent Post by Duke Okes View Post

There's nothing wrong with using multiple models, but as some have pointed out, people need to know which to use when.

To me the 5D is simply the 8D without use of a team. Many problems do not require a team.
Duke,
I guess i'll agree with that, not all problem req a team. it does make sense
Reply

Lower Navigation Bar
Go Back   The Elsmar Cove Forum > ISO (International Organization for Standardization) Standards > ISO 9000, ISO 9001, and ISO 9004 - Quality Management Systems > ISO 9000, ISO 9001, and ISO 9004 - Questions and Discussions

Do you find this discussion thread helpful and informational?


Bookmarks


Visitors Currently Viewing this Thread: 1 (0 Registered Visitors (Members) and 1 Unregistered Guest Visitors)
 
Thread Tools Search this Thread
Search this Thread:

Advanced Forum Search
Display Modes Rate Thread Content
Rate Thread Content:

Forum Posting Settings
You may not post new threads
You may not post replies
You may not post attachments
You may not edit your posts

BB code is On
Smilies are On
[IMG] code is On
HTML code is Off


Similar Discussion Threads
Discussion Thread Title Thread Starter Forum Replies Last Post or Poll Vote
Suggestion(s): Option of 'Strikethrough' in the reply somashekar Forum Suggestions, Complaints, Problems and Bug Reports 5 20th December 2011 01:38 AM
Disabling Copy Paste option in MS Word v9991 Computer, Cell Phone and Internet News and Discussions 30 25th August 2011 11:49 AM
Developing a Spares System - 2-bin Kanban System the best option? soton Lean in Manufacturing and Service Industries 3 18th December 2006 04:56 PM



The time now is 01:02 PM. All times are GMT -4.
Your time zone can be changed in your UserCP --> Options.


   


Marc Timothy Smith - Elsmar.com
8466 LeSourdsville-West Chester Road, Olde West Chester, Ohio 45069-1929
513 341-6272