Why do so many ISO 9001 Implementation Programs Fail?

[Stijloor]

Friends,

As long as MBA programs of study ignore the importance of quality (management systems), the new "Managers" will have no clue, and the chase for number$ will prevail..

Stijloor.

[Sidney Vianna]

In Reply to Parent Post by Pancho

Now, pursuing the next "why"...

Contrary to what some other people want to believe, in my estimation, 99%+ of organizations going for ISO 9001 implementation do so because they were either mandated, coerced, strongly advised, etc... to seek certification. So, certification becomes the end goal. That is the biggest negative contributor to the problem. Certification, not performance, becomes the final target and "measure of success".

The consulting and conformity assessment practitioners have trivialized the product, so it could be marketed more promptly and to the masses. A significant percentage of such practitioners have no idea of what business processes are and what a system comprised of processes is. In this post, we have a very representative image:

We had even shared with him some process mapping...he was like a dog watching a ceiling fan...something was going around him but it was all over his head.

Back to my point, if certification is the end goal and, substandard systems are awarded and maintain certification undeserving, with no involvement from top management, with no corrections to dysfunctional business processes, with no change in negative corporate culture, why would we expect top management to be involved? And, worse, in those instances where a competent third-party auditor wants to keep the organization accountable to the INTENT of the standard, but the organization doesn't, it is so easy to find another CB and/or auditor that won't be "so demanding".

If we really want ISO 9001 (and it's inexorably connected certification piece) to be what is meant to be, many stakeholders would have to change their behaviors. Accountability would have to be exercised. And accountability is something that many people avoid, given a chance.

[AndyN]

I wonder who it was who popularized the phrase 'Say what you do, do what you say"...

[AndyN]

In Reply to Parent Post by Stijloor

Friends,

As long as MBA programs of study ignore the importance of quality (management systems), the new "Managers" will have no clue, and the chase for number$ will prevail..

Stijloor.

And, sadly, Jan, it's also prevalent at even the local community college. One of my sons has been tasked with finding some education in basic quality methods etc - he works in an FAA regulated industry - and the local colleges have NOTHING to educate our new entry employees on what 'ISO' (nor any related topics) is - yet, here I am living in 'Automation Alley', at the very heart of ISO/TS 16949 world! Useless...

[John Broomfield]

In Reply to Parent Post by Jim Wynne

I think a lot of the general failure of leadership in American business can be tied to the Dunning-Kruger effect a concept that says that (a) incompetent people are likely to have greater confidence in their own competence than people who are competent and (b) people who are competent tend to go in the opposite direction, doubting their own competence.

Combined with the Peter Principle (in a hierarchy people tend to rise to a level of incomptency) the Dunning-Kruger effect seems to have great explanatory power.

Jim,

Many thanks, with these countervailing human factors it looks like we need all the help we can get!

Better to have a management system that actually helps its users to meet requirements than a collection of documents that relies on competent (and incompetent) humans to comply, conform or figure it for themselves.

Cheers,

John

[Ninja]

Browsed through this thread today and saw only hints toward what I think is the main reason implementations either fail or are shelved indefinitely (same thing, no?)

Top management buy-in based on increased profit.
IMHO not as an auditor, but as a user, Top buy-in comes from realizing that it will improve the bottom line...period.
If it costs more than it will help my business, why would I want it?
If improving is a good ROI, I'll invest.
Quality for Quality's sake doesn't sound that great to me. It's a tool to accomplish a goal...and the goal is profit.

That said, establishing and improving a QMS typically is a great ROI...not only as a ticket to play, but also in building a loyal and trusting client base of repeat business (based on Quality, not QMS).

The fails, then, come only from three sources:
1. Tops who don't recognize the ROI.
2. Tops who recognize there isn't an ROI for their situation.
3. Tops who recognize there is one but don't understand the investment instrument.

I wonder through most of the cases described on this thread if #3 isn't by far the most prevalent.

At the end of the day, QMS is a tool to make money.
Explaining the investment instrument and how it works (and what would make it fail to return and show a loss) is the way to get buy-in from the Top.

[bobdoering]

In Reply to Parent Post by AndyN

And, sadly, Jan, it's also prevalent at even the local community college. One of my sons has been tasked with finding some education in basic quality methods etc - he works in an FAA regulated industry - and the local colleges have NOTHING to educate our new entry employees on what 'ISO' (nor any related topics) is - yet, here I am living in 'Automation Alley', at the very heart of ISO/TS 16949 world! Useless...

Conversely, our community college program usually has about 6 students per session. Worse yet, the machining programs do not require their students to take metrology.

And the band plays on.....

[Stijloor]

In Reply to Parent Post by bobdoering

<snip>Worse yet, the machining programs do not require their students to take metrology.

And the band plays on.....

Tom Petty laments about "The Last DJ."
Likewise, a good machinist will be extinct very soon....

Stijloor.