Supplier Quality Management System (QMS) Audit - Formal Documented QMS does not exist

[joshubob]

What are the steps the auditor should take of a QMS Audit on a potential supplier, from the initial contact the auditor learns that a formal documented QMS does not exist.

[Ajit Basrur]

It depends on what your product is and who the supplier is ? If this is one of the many suppliers in that commodity, search another one but if it is like a monopolistic supplier and you have no alternative but to take this supplier onboard, work with them for developing the qms.

[qusys]

In Reply to Parent Post by joshubob

What are the steps the auditor should take of a QMS Audit on a potential supplier, from the initial contact the auditor learns that a formal documented QMS does not exist.

You can establish some criteria in advance with your potential supplier, before visiting them on their premises for a second party auidt.
You can send them a check list , requesting general info , among which the kind of certification they possess.
if you need other info, plas contact the covers

[somashekar]

In Reply to Parent Post by joshubob

What are the steps the auditor should take of a QMS Audit on a potential supplier, from the initial contact the auditor learns that a formal documented QMS does not exist.

It looks to me that your selection criteria for a potential supplier does not include being certified to a recognized QMS, typically the ISO9001.
So how can you plan an audit of QMS, when for sure you know he is yet to establish a formal documented QMS ?
You may have to approach with a process and production audit plan to check how his process can consistantly meet your parts quality and quantity requirements. Taking forward a supplier quality program, you can agree for a timeplan from the supplier to be certified to ISO9001 QMS. Further to that, it is your call to decide about you conducting a supplier QMS audit.

[Colin]

Just audit them against the clauses of the standard. They will have processes in place to do things like buying stuff and how they take on new work, it probably just won't be formally documented.

Of course there will be some gaps, especially when it comes to documented procedures and they probably won't do things like internal audits but they will have many informal systems in place.

[Chennaiite]

We consciously use the term 'evaluation' rather than 'audit' for prospective suppliers. It's more of evaluating the capability of the Supplier fraternity to raise the bar to expected level.
Sometimes, we enjoy cost advantage in case of such 'up-gradable' Suppliers.

[JaneB]

In Reply to Parent Post by joshubob

What are the steps the auditor should take of a QMS Audit on a potential supplier, from the initial contact the auditor learns that a formal documented QMS does not exist.

You absolutely should determine the scope of the audit, the procedure and the benchmark - ie, what you will audit against - before you go there.

It just isn't fair, let alone effective, to do an audit without that. I speak having seen the other side of such "audits" done on where no one was clear about what the audit was against, and the results were enormously time-wasting. For example, at one company I saw an audit report by some so-called 'auditors' which was almost unintelligible and I doubt its accuracy. It kept saying 'no quality manual exists' and virtually refused to look at anything else, giving ultimately a somewhat biassed and incorrect view of the operations there, which did have a number of controls built into the computer system, but which the auditors didn't appear to consider.

The suggestion to audit against the Standard's requirements is a sound one - it's a recognisable and respected benchmark. You could always leave out a clause or three if they aren't relevant. And yes, you could also call it an evaluation, which may go down better.

[amanbhai]

We can audit them if this audit is agreed between you and your supplier and that it has been agreed prior.
You can agree with your supplier on the following clauses:
Non conformances procedure, corrective actions, purchasing, contract review and amendments, and whether they have certification place.
Make initial contact with them and even if you don't visit them, you can still send them self evaluation checklist.