What do you do when an auditee says "No thank you"

[Jennifer Kirley]

I'm auditing a group who is not familiar with me - a different site than usual.

I have asked a process owner to show me how he controls his documentation, as this process group has decided to internally define and manage controls for their SOPs and policies. The response to my request to review his internal document control process, with examples, was a polite (paraphrased) "No thank you, we talked about enough already - you asked me all you are supposed to ask me yesterday; more, in fact."

Of course we must routinely audit control of internal documents, and I told him that, assuring him it was a normal part of almost every audit we do, and straightforward.

I'm rather amused, yet bemused at this outright refusal. Has anyone else experience with this? What did you do? He's highly placed in the organization.

[Jim Wynne]

Write in your report that the person wouldn't share information that you needed to see, and explain why you needed to see it. Just the facts, ma'am.

[Sidney Vianna]

As Jim mentioned, I would make a comment in the audit report that the audit was not finished. Lack of cooperation by the oddities auditees did not allow you to conduct a thorough and representative sample of the internal controls in place for the document control of the specific area.

If you have a closing meeting, I would make the comment as well.

The key thing is for whomever is in charge of the audit program must realize this audit is not finished. If auditees are allowed to bully themselves out of an audit, word will spread and you will have less than 100% cooperation in future audits. Auditors must be in control of the audit, not the auditees. If the organization top management sides with him, it will be just another indication of how much value they place in the audit program.

[AndyN]

Jennifer, if I understand correctly aren't you the owner of the audit process? Correct me, please, if I'm wrong. I may have formed an incorrect perception.

Of course, we don't know this character etc. I'm willing to guess, he's got a skewed idea of what the audit is about. You could report a lack of co-operation in the audit but, frankly (and especially if you are the audit process owner) what does it achieve? Is a peer or higher going to question/counsel him? Talk to him like a 'Dutch Uncle'? Will it appear in some Management Review records? How will the audit be concluded, if as Sidney suggests, the audit isn't over?

I'd be thinking how to approach the next audit on his patch and how to avoid him doing it again...

[Randy]

...And don't forget to still send the bill!

[lego55]

In Reply to Parent Post by Jennifer Kirley

The response to my request to review his internal document control process, with examples, was a polite (paraphrased) "No thank you, we talked about enough already - you asked me all you are supposed to ask me yesterday; more, in fact."

Jennifer, I'm curious...how did he know what you were supposed to ask yesterday, and that it was enough?

[silentrunning]

In the early days of our ISO experience (back when I was still a machinist) one of my fellow workers told the auditor that he didn't have time for this s*&t and would he please get out of his way. It was explained by the owner that the employee DID have time. After about a half hour in the owners office that employee came back out and appologized. Our auditor still laughs about that experience. Thankfully!

[Groo3]

I would ask them to answer just two or three more questions then I would leave them alone.

1. What is the corporate quality policy?
2. How do they support the corporate quality policy?
3. How do they help the company keep their registration(s) / certification(s)?

At this point, I would expect to see a lightbulb go off... If not, document it as Jim mentions above...

In Reply to Parent Post by Jim Wynne

Just the facts, ma'am.

When we first began our formal infernal audit program (not quite before electricity, but it was over 20 years ago), we quickly found out that we needed to provide audit awareness training to all employees on what an audit is, the difference between an internal and an external audit, the do's and don't(s) when an auditor asks you a question, etc. This basic awareness training helped to improve that type of attitude at our site. In the rare few instances where the auditee's attitude did not improve, stick to Jim's advice = just the facts... The bottom line is = If it is a priority with Top Management, it should be their priority as well.

There also needs to be a balance in how much time you take from an auditee... In your eyes, more needs to be covered... in their eyes, you overstayed your welcome.

Perception is truth in the minds of the perceiver...