Non Conformity (Nonconformance) Report & Preventive Action Requirements

[lakshit]

Hello friends,
I'd like to know whether the Non Conformity report should ask for Preventive Action, apart from Correction & Corrective Action.
I am asking this question because recently in a Lead Auditor course on ISO 9001:2008, the trainer said that it is incorrect to ask for Preventive Action on the Non Conformity form. As an example he sited the document "ISO 9001 Auditing Practices Group Guidance on: "Documenting a Nonconformity", where there is no mention of Preventive Action required once a non conformity is raised.

Thanks
Lakshit Seth

[Marc]

Who/What is the "ISO 9001 Auditing Practices Group"?

[lakshit]

The ISO 9001 Auditing Practices Group is constituted as an informal group of quality management system (QMS) experts, auditors and practitioners, drawn from the ISO Technical Committee 176 Quality Management and Quality Assurance (ISO/TC 176) and the International Accreditation Forum (IAF).

[Sidney Vianna]

In Reply to Parent Post by lakshit

Hello friends,
I'd like to know whether the Non Conformity report should ask for Preventive Action, apart from Correction & Corrective Action.
I am asking this question because recently in a Lead Auditor course on ISO 9001:2008, the trainer said that it is incorrect to ask for Preventive Action on the Non Conformity form. As an example he sited the document "ISO 9001 Auditing Practices Group Guidance on: "Documenting a Nonconformity", where there is no mention of Preventive Action required once a non conformity is raised.

Thanks
Lakshit Seth

Technically, he is correct. For an EXISTING nonconformity, there is no preventive action possible. Certainly you can implement correction and, potentially, corrective action. Since you are familiar with the APG, have a look at the auditing preventive action paper.

In Reply to Parent Post by Marc

Who/What is the "ISO 9001 Auditing Practices Group"?

Follow this link.

[qusys]

In Reply to Parent Post by lakshit

Hello friends,
I'd like to know whether the Non Conformity report should ask for Preventive Action, apart from Correction & Corrective Action.
I am asking this question because recently in a Lead Auditor course on ISO 9001:2008, the trainer said that it is incorrect to ask for Preventive Action on the Non Conformity form. As an example he sited the document "ISO 9001 Auditing Practices Group Guidance on: "Documenting a Nonconformity", where there is no mention of Preventive Action required once a non conformity is raised.

Thanks
Lakshit Seth

He is right. In the form to respond to finding of certification body I have never seen the section "preventive action".
However, in the internal audit form, we have foreseen a section "preventive action" for our organization, just a think about if a best preactices can be transferred to similar processes/products

[Randy]

Sheeeesh!

Preventive action in this case is nothing more than those actions in order to prevent recurrence within a corrective action.

8.5.2 Corrective action
The organization shall take action to eliminate the causes of nonconformities in order to prevent recurrence....c) evaluating the need for action to ensure that nonconformities do not recur,

Remember, we have to correct...fix the problem, and then take action to prevent recurrence

Folks need to quit making this difficult....

[Sidney Vianna]

In Reply to Parent Post by Randy

Preventive action in this case is nothing more than those actions in order to prevent recurrence within a corrective action.

Promoting that line of thought just ADDS to the confusion between corrective and preventive action.

Both corrective and preventive actions are clearly defined in ISO 9000. If you allow the term preventive action to mean what corrective action is, in a nonconformity review form, you are just confusing people.

[Jim Wynne]

In Reply to Parent Post by Sidney Vianna

Promoting that line of thought just ADDS to the confusion between corrective and preventive action.

Both corrective and preventive actions are clearly defined in ISO 9000. If you allow the term preventive action to mean what corrective action is, in a nonconformity review form, you are just confusing people.

In fairness, the confusion is fomented by the standard. In the passage Randy quotes, they could have used any of a dozen or so synonyms for "prevent" if they were really concerned about the distinction being honored.