Internal Audit for an Integrated Management System (IMS)?

[qusys]

In Reply to Parent Post by Claes Gefvenberg

Oh, I see. In our case it depends on the auditors: Some of them are savvy in all standards concerned, and some are not, so we put teams covering the entire IMS together for each audit. It works for us.

I agree. I missed the fact that you are a new poster, so: Welcome to the Cove

/Claes

Agree with you.
It depends on the competence of the auditors.
Clearly it is also important the selection of the lead auditor.
Besides, it is also key the audit plan well done for each internal audit, in fact the risk could be that if there are too thing to be assessed, the audit could loose in effectiveness.
The team work between auditor is also important.

[Affour]

So these means that by having integrated the three mgmt system, it is not a compulsary to have an integrated audit (refer to my definition earlier)...correct me if i am wrong...
Thanks for welcoming me...lots of things to learn from u guys..haha.

[qusys]

In Reply to Parent Post by Affour

So these means that by having integrated the three mgmt system, it is not a compulsary to have an integrated audit (refer to my definition earlier)...correct me if i am wrong...
Thanks for welcoming me...lots of things to learn from u guys..haha.

It is an opportunity that you can catch but it is not prescriptive as per ISO 9001, ISO 14001 and OHSAS 18001.
Only ISO 9001 requires to have a documented procedure for internal audit.
If your organization is ready to implement an integrated audit program, you can proceed in that direction.
In your procedure you can document it and assure the compliance.
You should also set the competence and skills of the internal auditor and make them ready to fullfil the task of the integrated audit program.

[somashekar]

Clearly it is also important the selection of the lead auditor.

There is no requirement about selection of the lead auditor in internal audits.

[qusys]

In Reply to Parent Post by somashekar

There is no requirement about selection of the lead auditor in internal audits.

I know, thanks for feedback.
However I was referring to the ISO 19011 guidelines, that we have also mentioned in our internal audit procedure.
I was trying to help the Cover in his question, based upon the intention to integrate the internal audit. In this sense we follow clause 5.1 of ISO 19011 Authority for the audit program and we included it in our internal audit procedure.
So , the assumption is that lead auditor should be competent and skill for managing an integrated internal audit with the selected team. That's all.
The risk of not having competent lead auditor is that the audit could fail in its scope.
hope this is clear enough

[somashekar]

In Reply to Parent Post by qusys

I know, thanks for feedback.
However I was referring to the ISO 19011 guidelines, that we have also mentioned in our internal audit procedure.
I was trying to help the Cover in his question, based upon the intention to integrate the internal audit. In this sense we follow clause 5.1 of ISO 19011 Authority for the audit program and we included it in our internal audit procedure.
So , the assumption is that lead auditor should be competent and skill for managing an integrated internal audit with the selected team. That's all.
The risk of not having competent lead auditor is that the audit could fail in its scope.
hope this is clear enough

The most closest statement from 5.1 of ISO19011 to the OP's asking perhaps is this:
"If an organization to be audited operates both quality management and environmental management systems, combined audits may be included in the audit program. In such a case, special attention should be paid to the competency of the audit team."
Thanks to qusys for elaborating and the competent lead auditor in the audit team enhances the audit team competency.

[qusys]

In Reply to Parent Post by somashekar

The most closest statement from 5.1 of ISO19011 to the OP's asking perhaps is this:
"If an organization to be audited operates both quality management and environmental management systems, combined audits may be included in the audit program. In such a case, special attention should be paid to the competency of the audit team."
Thanks to qusys for elaborating and the competent lead auditor in the audit team enhances the audit team competency.

Agree Someashekar.
The clauses of ISO 19011 guidelines for what you mentioned are 6.2.1 and 6.2.2. The guidelines is very useful and give good practices to the internal audit programme and plan , expecially in the combined audit as the Cover asked in the original post.
Besides, whole 7.4 chapter contributes to identify competence and skill for the internal auditor that are engaged in performing combined audits and this should be take into account for the documented internal audit procedure of an organization , like I have seen in other company and do in ours.
Thanks again

[Claes Gefvenberg]

In Reply to Parent Post by Affour

Thanks for welcoming me...lots of things to learn from u guys..haha.

Yes, this place is exceedingly good if you want to learn: I have been hanging out here for more than a decade, and I am still learning things at an ever increasing rate. Stick around, and you will soon see what I mean: Not only will you be learning things you are looking for. You will also find out about stuff you did not even know you needed to know, and soon enough others will be learning from you, which will boost your own learning further. I really is a never ending positive circle...

/Claes