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Minitab ANOVA Gage R&R Error (vs. EXCEL ANOVA GRR Calculation)


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Related Topic Tags
anova (analysis of variance), gage r&r (repeatability and reproducibility), microsoft excel .xls .xlsx spreadsheet, minitab (statistical analysis software), formula (mathematics/statistics)
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  Post Number #1  
Old 28th September 2011, 02:10 AM
Ingo1966's Avatar
Ingo1966

 
 
Total Posts: 41
Exclamation Minitab ANOVA Gage R&R Error (vs. EXCEL ANOVA GRR Calculation)

MiniTab includes the insignificant interaction Term Operator x Part in the final calculation of %GAGE R&R.

Attached I have an EXCEL ANOVA GRR Calculation for the same data's which I put into Minitab.

If you stay with alpha 0.25 to remove the insignificant interaction term Operator x Part the Results differ from Minitab. (even though MiniTAb Session Window stated to remove the Interaction Term also at alpha 0.25)

If you manipulate alpha to 1 in my Excel Sheet to INCLUDE the insignificant OPxPart Interaction --> everything is fine.

But this is wrong ! Ok it differs not much but unfortunately these Values are used to callibrate the Outcome from other Statistical Software.

And therefore some People who trust MiniTab would say my EXCEL Calculation is somehow wrong.
Attached Files: 1. Scan for viruses before using, 2. Please report any 'bad' files by Reporting this post, 3. Use at your Own Risk.
File Type: xls GAGE_R_R_VERIFICATION TEST_ CALLIBRIATION DATA.xls (144.0 KB, 278 views)
File Type: xls GRR DATAS for MINITAB INPUT.xls (23.5 KB, 192 views)

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  Post Number #2  
Old 29th September 2011, 07:45 AM
Stijloor's Avatar
Stijloor

 
 
Total Posts: 15,007
Re: Minitab ANOVA Gage R&R Error (vs. EXCEL ANOVA GRR Calculation)

Quote:
In Reply to Parent Post by Ingo1966 View Post

MiniTab includes the insignificant interaction Term Operator x Part in the final calculation of %GAGE R&R.

Attached I have an EXCEL ANOVA GRR Calculation for the same data's which I put into Minitab.

If you stay with alpha 0.25 to remove the insignificant interaction term Operator x Part the Results differ from Minitab. (even though MiniTAb Session Window stated to remove the Interaction Term also at alpha 0.25)

If you manipulate alpha to 1 in my Excel Sheet to INCLUDE the insignificant OPxPart Interaction --> everything is fine.

But this is wrong ! Ok it differs not much but unfortunately these Values are used to callibrate the Outcome from other Statistical Software.

And therefore some People who trust MiniTab would say my EXCEL Calculation is somehow wrong.
Comments anyone?

Thank you!!

Stijloor.
Thanks to Stijloor for your informative Post and/or Attachment!
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  Post Number #3  
Old 3rd October 2011, 06:08 AM
Allattar

 
 
Total Posts: 234
Re: Minitab ANOVA Gage R&R Error (vs. EXCEL ANOVA GRR Calculation)

It looks like you are using the EV calculation from the full model with the interaction. Even though you remove the interaction.

Note if you remove the interaction, the Sum of squares for the interaction must go to the error term, must go into equipment variation.

You are dividing g22 by h22. G22 is the EV found with the interaction included.

As far as I can see including or removing the interaction in your excewl sheet does not change the SS in the EV.
Thank You to Allattar for your informative Post and/or Attachment!
  Post Number #4  
Old 3rd October 2011, 10:20 AM
Ingo1966's Avatar
Ingo1966

 
 
Total Posts: 41
Re: Minitab ANOVA Gage R&R Error (vs. EXCEL ANOVA GRR Calculation)

Thankyou for your comments, you are right.

My Excel sheet is not very clearly you will find the modified SS for EV including the ERROR TERM in Cell C22

My Concern is MiniTab's Calculation why it comes up with different results
  Post Number #5  
Old 4th October 2011, 04:16 AM
Allattar

 
 
Total Posts: 234
Re: Minitab ANOVA Gage R&R Error (vs. EXCEL ANOVA GRR Calculation)

I admit it is difficult following what the excel sheet is doing, but I think I may have traced it back.

The reproducibility estimates in your worksheet are different to Minitab, and hence the different figures.

Your calculation is MS(operator)/ (Parts*Replicates)

Minitab calculation

MS(Operator) - MS(repeatability) / (Parts * Replicates)
Thanks to Allattar for your informative Post and/or Attachment!
  Post Number #6  
Old 4th October 2011, 07:11 AM
Ingo1966's Avatar
Ingo1966

 
 
Total Posts: 41
Re: Minitab ANOVA Gage R&R Error (vs. EXCEL ANOVA GRR Calculation)

Thankyou Allatar,

that was the point !
I was wrong, I have corrected it and than it fits with MiniTab.

I have to consult AIAG MSA 4th Appendix A again.

Dear Elsmar Forum:
"I am sorry for confusion"
Attached Files: 1. Scan for viruses before using, 2. Please report any 'bad' files by Reporting this post, 3. Use at your Own Risk.
File Type: xls GAGE_R_R_VERIFICATION TEST_ CORRECTED VERSION.xls (143.5 KB, 256 views)

Last edited by Ingo1966; 4th October 2011 at 07:24 AM.
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