The Elsmar Cove Wiki More Free Files The Elsmar Cove Forums Discussion Thread Index Post Attachments Listing Failure Modes Services and Solutions to Problems Elsmar cove Forums Main Page Elsmar Cove Home Page

Go Back   The Elsmar Cove Forum > Medical Devices, Medical Information Technology, Medical Software and Health Informatics > Medical Device Related Regulations > US Medical Device Regulations > US Medical Devices (21 CFR part 820)
Forum Username


Elsmar Cove Forum Sidebar
Custom Search
Monitor the Elsmar Forum
Monitor New Forum Posts
Follow Marc & Elsmar
Elsmar Cove Forum RSS Feed  Marc Smith's Google+ Page  Marc Smith's Linked In Page   Marc Smith's Elsmar Cove YouTube Page  Marc Smith's Facebook Page
Elsmar Cove Groups
Elsmar Cove Google+ Group  Elsmar Cove LinkedIn Group  Elsmar Cove Facebook Group
Sponsor Links







Donate and $ Contributor Forum Access
Sponsored Links
Courtesy Quick Links

Links that Elsmar Cove visitors will find useful in your quest for knowledge:


Howard's
International Quality Services

Atul's
Symphony Technologies

Marcelo Antunes'
SQR Consulting

Bob Doering's
Correct SPC - Precision Machining


NIST's Engineering Statistics Handbook

IRCA - International Register of Certified Auditors

SAE - Society of Automotive Engineers

Quality Digest Portal

IEST - Institute of Environmental Sciences and Technology

ASQ - American Society for Quality


Related Topic Tags
21 cfr part 820 - med. device mfger. qsr requirements, class ii medical device, contract manufacturing, fda (food and drug administration), fda requirements, medical device registration, medical devices (general), outsourced products and processes
Reply
 
Thread Tools Search this Thread Rate Thread Content Display Modes
  #9  
Old 26th April 2012, 09:03 AM
ramez75 ramez75 is offline
Getting Involved (6 to 9 Posts)

 
Registration Date: Aug 2011
 
Posts: 7
Thanks Given to Others: 0
Thanked 1 Time in 1 Post
Karma Power: 8
Karma: 15
ramez75 has less than 100 Karma points so far.
Re: Medical Device Contract Manufacturer Registration

Quote:
In Reply to Parent Post by treesei View Post

This is very interesting. However I need some help with the roles (my thanks in advance):

XYZ owns the 510k of the product. Does this mean XYZ owns the specifications as the product developer (even it acquired the product from somewhere)? If so, does XYZ satisfy the CM definition?

It seems that the product is finished at XYZ. Can ABC call itself the manufacturer of the device by definition? It obviously did not develop the specs. Should ABC be a relabeler (only that it is a virtual relabeler since the practice is done by XYZ) (so XYZ may be a "contract relabeler" )?

By the FDA:

Contract Manufacturer - Manufactures a finished device to another establishment's specifications.

Manufacturer - Makes by chemical, physical, biological, or other procedures, any article that meets the definition of "device" in Section 201(h) of the Federal Food, Drug, and Cosmetic (FD&C) Act.

Relabeler - Changes the content of the labeling from that supplied from the original manufacturer for distribution under the establishment's own name. A relabeler does not include establishments that do not change the original labeling but merely add their own name

PS: Every once for a while we will see some discrepency among FDA's documents partially because regulatory is a changing world.

treesei,

XYZ owned the design/technology of the product till it was purchased by ABC years ago. ABC kept XYZ as the manufacturer. So ABC aquired the rights to the product. I know there is a 510k but I have to find out who initiated it, etc. I dont know if that answers your question.

Sponsored Links
  #10  
Old 26th April 2012, 09:52 AM
treesei treesei is offline
Involved in Discussions

 
Registration Date: Mar 2007
Location: California. USA
 
Posts: 214
Thanks Given to Others: 51
Thanked 87 Times in 67 Posts
Karma Power: 47
Karma: 430
treesei is appreciated, and has over 400 Karma points.treesei is appreciated, and has over 400 Karma points.treesei is appreciated, and has over 400 Karma points.treesei is appreciated, and has over 400 Karma points.treesei is appreciated, and has over 400 Karma points.
Re: Medical Device Contract Manufacturer Registration

Quote:
In Reply to Parent Post by ramez75 View Post

treesei,

XYZ owned the design/technology of the product till it was purchased by ABC years ago. ABC kept XYZ as the manufacturer. So ABC aquired the rights to the product. I know there is a 510k but I have to find out who initiated it, etc. I dont know if that answers your question.
ramez75,

Yes you did. Thank you. In this case, XYZ is a CM. Since ABC bought the technology, it seems to me that ABC is a spec developer and is responsible for the 510k maintenance. XYZ as a foreign CM must register and list the product if XYZ ships the product to US.
Sponsored Links

  #11  
Old 26th April 2012, 12:10 PM
MIREGMGR MIREGMGR is online now
Appreciated Information Resource

 
Registration Date: Aug 2008
Location: SE Michigan, USA
 
Posts: 2,849
Thanks Given to Others: 1,036
Thanked 2,036 Times in 1,273 Posts
Karma Power: 351
Karma: 23534
MIREGMGR is appreciated, and has over 1700 Karma points.MIREGMGR is appreciated, and has over 1700 Karma points.MIREGMGR is appreciated, and has over 1700 Karma points.
MIREGMGR is appreciated, and has over 1700 Karma points.MIREGMGR is appreciated, and has over 1700 Karma points.MIREGMGR is appreciated, and has over 1700 Karma points.MIREGMGR is appreciated, and has over 1700 Karma points.MIREGMGR is appreciated, and has over 1700 Karma points.MIREGMGR is appreciated, and has over 1700 Karma points.MIREGMGR is appreciated, and has over 1700 Karma points.MIREGMGR is appreciated, and has over 1700 Karma points.MIREGMGR is appreciated, and has over 1700 Karma points.MIREGMGR is appreciated, and has over 1700 Karma points.MIREGMGR is appreciated, and has over 1700 Karma points.MIREGMGR is appreciated, and has over 1700 Karma points.MIREGMGR is appreciated, and has over 1700 Karma points.MIREGMGR is appreciated, and has over 1700 Karma points.
Re: Medical Device Contract Manufacturer Registration

Things get messy when a 510(k) sale is involved.

XYZ had to have been a Registered Establishment when the 510(k) was issued. If they're not registered now, they must have let that registration lapse.

I assume that when you purchased "the design/technology of the product", you also explicitly purchased the 510(k). If not, things get even messier.

Under current law, a 510(k) held by a company that lets its registration lapse may become void. It's not clear whether that 510(k) can be rejuvenated by re-registering.

If you putatively bought the 510(k) from XYZ, and XYZ was not registered at that time, it's possible that no 510(k) exists. If you didn't buy the 510(k), and XYZ is not registered now, then it seems certain that no 510(k) is in effect now.

Regarding LMN...you earlier described them as ABC's European distributor, but now you describe them as ABC's European Authorized Representative. If XYZ delivers only to LMN, and LMN ships to ABC in the US, then it's possible that FDA might conclude that LMN is the contract manufacturer of record...since they export the product to the US...and XYZ is only a subcontractor.

It's very hard to convince FDA that a supplier has some degree of regulatory responsibility for a product you're marketing, such as that of a contract manufacturer, if you don't have a clear written definition of the business relationship, and that supplier explains to FDA a plausible alternate construction of the plain facts of the relationship and says that that's been their understanding.

Note that in that scenario, the 510(k) question goes out the window.

You said in an earlier post that FDA had held at least one shipment. It was implied that you were able to get them to release it. What did you tell them that caused them to do that?
Thank You to MIREGMGR for your informative Post and/or Attachment!
  #12  
Old 26th April 2012, 12:34 PM
ramez75 ramez75 is offline
Getting Involved (6 to 9 Posts)

 
Registration Date: Aug 2011
 
Posts: 7
Thanks Given to Others: 0
Thanked 1 Time in 1 Post
Karma Power: 8
Karma: 15
ramez75 has less than 100 Karma points so far.
Re: Medical Device Contract Manufacturer Registration

Quote:
In Reply to Parent Post by treesei View Post

ramez75,

Yes you did. Thank you. In this case, XYZ is a CM. Since ABC bought the technology, it seems to me that ABC is a spec developer and is responsible for the 510k maintenance. XYZ as a foreign CM must register and list the product if XYZ ships the product to US.

That was my argument to XYZ but they say they are not shipping it to US since they ship it to LMN (Authorized Rep of ABC based in Europe) and LMN ship it to US. I told them it doesnt matter because they are still the manufacturer of the product
  #13  
Old 26th April 2012, 07:09 PM
treesei treesei is offline
Involved in Discussions

 
Registration Date: Mar 2007
Location: California. USA
 
Posts: 214
Thanks Given to Others: 51
Thanked 87 Times in 67 Posts
Karma Power: 47
Karma: 430
treesei is appreciated, and has over 400 Karma points.treesei is appreciated, and has over 400 Karma points.treesei is appreciated, and has over 400 Karma points.treesei is appreciated, and has over 400 Karma points.treesei is appreciated, and has over 400 Karma points.
Re: Medical Device Contract Manufacturer Registration

ramez75,

I would suggest that you for the time being put aside the registration debate and focus on the 510k story first. You may want to figure out the whole story of this 510k as well as the relationship/roles of ABC and XYZ. Then it should be more obvious to see how each facility falls into the FDA definitions regarding registration and listing.
  #14  
Old 26th April 2012, 07:24 PM
Ronen E Ronen E is offline
Glad to help, if I can

 
Registration Date: Mar 2010
Location: Western Australia
 
Posts: 1,357
Thanks Given to Others: 1,318
Thanked 760 Times in 539 Posts
Karma Power: 161
Karma: 6428
Ronen E is appreciated, and has over 1700 Karma points.Ronen E is appreciated, and has over 1700 Karma points.
Ronen E is appreciated, and has over 1700 Karma points.Ronen E is appreciated, and has over 1700 Karma points.Ronen E is appreciated, and has over 1700 Karma points.Ronen E is appreciated, and has over 1700 Karma points.Ronen E is appreciated, and has over 1700 Karma points.
Re: Medical Device Contract Manufacturer Registration

Quote:
In Reply to Parent Post by MIREGMGR View Post

Under current law, a 510(k) held by a company that lets its registration lapse may become void. It's not clear whether that 510(k) can be rejuvenated by re-registering.
Could you please kindly specify or point to the legal clause(s) detailing this topic?

Many thanks in advance,
Ronen.
  #15  
Old 26th April 2012, 09:14 PM
MIREGMGR MIREGMGR is online now
Appreciated Information Resource

 
Registration Date: Aug 2008
Location: SE Michigan, USA
 
Posts: 2,849
Thanks Given to Others: 1,036
Thanked 2,036 Times in 1,273 Posts
Karma Power: 351
Karma: 23534
MIREGMGR is appreciated, and has over 1700 Karma points.MIREGMGR is appreciated, and has over 1700 Karma points.MIREGMGR is appreciated, and has over 1700 Karma points.
MIREGMGR is appreciated, and has over 1700 Karma points.MIREGMGR is appreciated, and has over 1700 Karma points.MIREGMGR is appreciated, and has over 1700 Karma points.MIREGMGR is appreciated, and has over 1700 Karma points.MIREGMGR is appreciated, and has over 1700 Karma points.MIREGMGR is appreciated, and has over 1700 Karma points.MIREGMGR is appreciated, and has over 1700 Karma points.MIREGMGR is appreciated, and has over 1700 Karma points.MIREGMGR is appreciated, and has over 1700 Karma points.MIREGMGR is appreciated, and has over 1700 Karma points.MIREGMGR is appreciated, and has over 1700 Karma points.MIREGMGR is appreciated, and has over 1700 Karma points.MIREGMGR is appreciated, and has over 1700 Karma points.MIREGMGR is appreciated, and has over 1700 Karma points.
Re: Medical Device Contract Manufacturer Registration

I don't know of any specific FDA writing that bears on the issue, one way or the other.

What I said, however, is how it's been explained to me by a person with more legal knowledge than me. Note however that I'm not a lawyer and my comments are not competent legal advice. Please assume that I might be right or I might be wrong.

Anyone for whom these nuances may significantly matter would (in my opinion) be well advised to obtain regulatorily qualified legal counsel.
Thanks to MIREGMGR for your informative Post and/or Attachment!
  #16  
Old 28th April 2012, 02:19 AM
Ronen E Ronen E is offline
Glad to help, if I can

 
Registration Date: Mar 2010
Location: Western Australia
 
Posts: 1,357
Thanks Given to Others: 1,318
Thanked 760 Times in 539 Posts
Karma Power: 161
Karma: 6428
Ronen E is appreciated, and has over 1700 Karma points.Ronen E is appreciated, and has over 1700 Karma points.
Ronen E is appreciated, and has over 1700 Karma points.Ronen E is appreciated, and has over 1700 Karma points.Ronen E is appreciated, and has over 1700 Karma points.Ronen E is appreciated, and has over 1700 Karma points.Ronen E is appreciated, and has over 1700 Karma points.
Re: Medical Device Contract Manufacturer Registration

Quote:
In Reply to Parent Post by MIREGMGR View Post

I don't know of any specific FDA writing that bears on the issue, one way or the other.

What I said, however, is how it's been explained to me by a person with more legal knowledge than me. Note however that I'm not a lawyer and my comments are not competent legal advice. Please assume that I might be right or I might be wrong.

Anyone for whom these nuances may significantly matter would (in my opinion) be well advised to obtain regulatorily qualified legal counsel.
I did a little search, which wasn't very conclusive. the closest thing I found is:

Quote:
5. What are the consequences for failure to pay the establishment registration fee?

If you are one of the types of establishments that are required to pay an establishment registration fee, FDA will consider your registration to be incomplete and will not accept it until the fee is paid. Further, FDA may not accept submissions from you (premarket applications, premarket reports, supplements, premarket notification submissions, 30-day notices, requests for classification information, or periodic reporting concerning a class III device) until you have paid all fees owed, including all required establishment registration fees. See section 738(f)(1) of the Act, as amended by section 212 of the FDAAA.
(P. 5 of Guidance for Industry and FDA Staff -- Implementation of Medical Device Establishment Registration and Device Listing Requirements Established by the Food and Drug Administration Amendments Act of 2007; issued on October 8, 2009)

The above clause only states that new submissions will not be accepted; it says nothing about past cleared submissions (and as noted, I couldn't find anything in that regard, which of course doesn't mean it doesn't exist, somewhere). I'd tend to think that if such practice was in place, it'd be at least hinted in a clause discussing the consequences of failure to register or re-register (you're probably aware that initial 510(k) submissions do not require the applicant to already be registered; registration is required only within 30 days of [consequent] commencement of manufacture and distribution). It's true that the cited language relates specifically to failure to pay registration fees, however the context clarifies that failure to pay equals failure to register or lapse of current registration. Therefore, if failure to re-register would result in 510(k) void (or whatever similar-meaning terminology), failure to pay registration fees would have had the same consequence.
Thanks to Ronen E for your informative Post and/or Attachment!
Reply

Lower Navigation Bar
Go Back   The Elsmar Cove Forum > Medical Devices, Medical Information Technology, Medical Software and Health Informatics > Medical Device Related Regulations > US Medical Device Regulations > US Medical Devices (21 CFR part 820)

Do you find this discussion thread helpful and informational?


Bookmarks


Visitors Currently Viewing this Thread: 1 (0 Registered Visitors (Members) and 1 Unregistered Guest Visitors)
 
Thread Tools Search this Thread
Search this Thread:

Advanced Forum Search
Display Modes Rate Thread Content
Rate Thread Content:

Forum Posting Settings
You may not post new threads
You may not post replies
You may not post attachments
You may not edit your posts

BB code is On
Smilies are On
[IMG] code is On
HTML code is Off


Similar Discussion Threads
Discussion Thread Title Thread Starter Forum Replies Last Post or Poll Vote
Contract Manufacturer of a Non-Invasive, Non-Sterile Device and FDA Registration MRWardell US Food and Drug Administration (FDA) 2 22nd December 2011 02:41 AM
LST (Device Listing Number) for Medical Device Contract Manufacturer gunilletta US Medical Devices (21 CFR part 820) 5 17th November 2011 02:15 PM
Regulatory Requirement Updates? Medical Device Contract Manufacturer cubix rube ISO 13485 and ISO 14969 - Medical Devices - Quality Management Systems 6 20th April 2011 05:39 PM
Financial Risk for Contract Manufacturer Partnering a Medical Device Manufacturer? WisdomseekerSC US Medical Devices (21 CFR part 820) 3 8th December 2009 11:30 PM
Looking for USA Medical Device Contract Manufacturer - Suggestions? S3Support ISO 13485 and ISO 14969 - Medical Devices - Quality Management Systems 12 26th November 2007 11:37 AM



The time now is 01:13 PM. All times are GMT -4.
Your time zone can be changed in your UserCP --> Options.


   


Marc Timothy Smith - Elsmar.com
8466 LeSourdsville-West Chester Road, Olde West Chester, Ohio 45069-1929
513 341-6272