


6th April 2012, 04:28 AM


Imr VS Xmr Chart  What's their difference?
Hi experts,
I have a Q regards to IMR chart. I went around to look in the net and found there are 2 versions of it.
1) IMR only can have individual data which means we will tk the constant which carries n=2 only everytime.
2) IMR can have subgroups. thats the reason we have a constant table for individual with sample size till 10 (the table of constant we I got it from (ASTM publication STP15D, Manual on the Presentation of Data and Control Chart Analysis, 1976; pp134136.)
My Q, which is the right one?If the version 2 is right,I wonder how the way to calculate the UCL & LCL and how this will differ with the Xbar R chart or X bar S chart (which we knows carries the subgroup ).Thanks a lot for your explanation.

6th April 2012, 08:43 AM


Re: Imr VS Xmr Chart  What's their difference?
Quote:
2) IMR can have subgroups

Wrong, are subgroup charts, not IMR (Individual moving range)
There are many different kind of control charts, the individual a point on the chart represent one data point, the subgroups charts one point represent several data points
We are now talking about XBar & R Control Charts, if the sample is bigger, XBar & S Control Charts.
Wich is better?, it depends on the sample size, and the sample size depends on the process wich is meassured

Thanks to Darius for your informative Post and/or Attachment!


6th April 2012, 10:59 AM


Re: Imr VS Xmr Chart  What's their difference?
Good Day Sitiz,
Not sure I understand your question, if it is in fact when to use a I/MR chart vs X Bar/R chart; here are some of my notes/guidelines, if you use Minitab, the control charts tutorial is very good at drawing a dinstinction
"When to Use an IndividualX / MR Chart
IndividualX / Moving Range charts are generally used when you can't group measurements into rational subgroups, when it's more convenient to monitor actual observations rather than subgroup averages, or when the process distribution is very skewed or bounded. Each subgroup, consisting of a single observation, represents a "snapshot" of the process at a given point in time. The charts' xaxes are time based, so that the charts show a history of the process. For this reason, you must have data that is timeordered; that is, entered in the sequence from which it was generated. If this is not the case, then trends or shifts in the process may not be detected, but instead attributed to random (common cause) variation.
Advertised Reason for using Individual charts– Where the cost of inspection is high such as when destructive testing is involved…..Real Reason it is a tool with which to loosen the criteria for assessing stability, particularly if small mean shifts are actually common over time."
And by extension Xbar R charts are "typically" used when:
 Xbar/RChart – when subgroup size is between 2 & 10 use Xbar/Rchart
 Xbar/S Chart – when subgroup size is > 10 use Xbar/Schart
There is a vast pool of academic and professional knowledge here, hopefully others will add to or revise my input.
Hope this helps.....
Regards,
Marty

Thanks to optomist1 for your informative Post and/or Attachment!


6th April 2012, 11:10 AM


Re: Imr VS Xmr Chart  What's their difference?
The confusion may arise from the Moving Range sample size. While the X  chart is always an individual point, the Moving Range may be calculated from 2 successive points, 3 successive points. n successive points.

Thank You to Miner for your informative Post and/or Attachment!


6th April 2012, 10:40 PM


Re: Imr VS Xmr Chart  What's their difference?
Quote:
In Reply to Parent Post by Miner
The confusion may arise from the Moving Range sample size. While the X  chart is always an individual point, the Moving Range may be calculated from 2 successive points, 3 successive points. n successive points.

OK, But I don't remember to have seen tables for constants for such charts (moving ranges for more than two data points), can you post the tables or a link to them?

7th April 2012, 05:34 AM


Re: Imr VS Xmr Chart  What's their difference?
Quote:
In Reply to Parent Post by Darius
OK, But I don't remember to have seen tables for constants for such charts (moving ranges for more than two data points), can you post the tables or a link to them?

Don't have a table I can post but they are in the AIAG SPC manual, 2nd edition (probably other editions too but thats what I have.......)

7th April 2012, 09:23 AM


Re: Imr VS Xmr Chart  What's their difference?
Quote:
In Reply to Parent Post by Darius
OK, But I don't remember to have seen tables for constants for such charts (moving ranges for more than two data points), can you post the tables or a link to them?

This is a link to an article from George Mason University and table for IMR constants for moving ranges of varying sizes.

Thank You to Miner for your informative Post and/or Attachment!


8th April 2012, 09:23 PM


Re: Imr VS Xmr Chart  What's their difference?
Thank you all for your kind reply but I think we still have not come to an conclusion.
Some saying IMR not subgroup chart.
Miner,
The table is the same table I was talking on the ASTM std. But question here is we still use the constant n=2 from the table.So when actually we will use the other sample size from the table for IMR/XMR chart?
Sry guys coz I am still not clear on this.

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