The Elsmar Cove Forum and Site Map The Elsmar Cove Wiki More Free Files The Elsmar Cove Forums Discussion Thread Index Post Attachments Listing Failure Modes Services and Solutions to Problems Elsmar cove Forums Main Page Elsmar Cove Home Page

Go Back   The Elsmar Cove Forum > Common Quality Assurance Processes and Tools > Capability, Accuracy and Stability - Process, Machine, etc.


The Elsmar Cove Forum SideBar!
Monitor the Forum
Monitor New Forum Posts
New Threads Feeds
RSS FeedRSS Feed
Sponsor Link










$ Contributor Forum Access
Courtesy Quick Links

Links that Elsmar Cove visitors will find useful in your quest for knowledge:


Howard's International Quality Services

Atul's Symphony Technologies

Dave Scott's Scott Quality Solutions

Praxiom Research Group


NIST's Engineering Statistics Handbook

IRCA - International Register of Certified Auditors

SAE - Society of Automotive Engineers

Quality Digest Portal

IEST - Institute of Environmental Sciences and Technology

ASQ - American Society for Quality


All the Important Standards and Related Web Sites in the World
Reply
 
Thread Tools Search this Thread Rating: Thread Rating: 1 votes, 3.00 average. Display Modes
  #1  
Old 14th March 2003, 06:27 AM
anilo anilo is offline
Involved - Posts

Registration Date: Mar 2003
Location: Italy
Age: 34
 
Posts: 23
Thanks Given to Others: 0
Thanked 2 Times in 2 Posts
Karma Power: 28
Karma: 20
anilo has less than 100 Karma points so far.
Default Cpk, Cmk in electronic assembly

someone cal help me?
we design and manifacture electronic engine management system for automotive sector.
Our Client want we define Cpk...
But this seems to be realized for a mechanical process, where i can measure dimension and tolerance, and so i can see either the process is in control or out of control.
But in electronic, where the critical elements are hundreds, what i must measure?
Can I avoid to classify every single defects, and focus only on the Printed circuit which fails?

P.S.: Do you know where i can find standards related to statistic (such as ISO/TR 13425:"Guidelines for the Selection of Statistical Methods in Standardization and Specification" or similar)?

Thanks all

Anilo
Reply With Quote

Sponsored Links
  #2  
Old 14th March 2003, 10:28 AM
Darius's Avatar
Darius Darius is offline
Courtesy Access

Registration Date: Mar 2002
Location: Monterrey Mexico
Age: 47
 
Posts: 338
Thanks Given to Others: 21
Thanked 84 Times in 59 Posts
Karma Power: 65
Karma: 1399
Darius is appreciated, and has over 1300 Karma points.Darius is appreciated, and has over 1300 Karma points.Darius is appreciated, and has over 1300 Karma points.Darius is appreciated, and has over 1300 Karma points.Darius is appreciated, and has over 1300 Karma points.Darius is appreciated, and has over 1300 Karma points.Darius is appreciated, and has over 1300 Karma points.Darius is appreciated, and has over 1300 Karma points.Darius is appreciated, and has over 1300 Karma points.Darius is appreciated, and has over 1300 Karma points.
Default

I am not from the automotive sector, but if they want a Cpk, they don't care about all the properties of your product, but your product it self.

for example: How much of the product could be defective? Cpk can be correlated to the ppm defective (if ..., you take the distribution as a gaussian ones.). In the net there are many articles that show such table.

I tink that i'ts right to focus only on the parts that could fail, but keep on mind that they just want a value a Cpk (only one) of your product.

Darius
Reply With Quote
Sponsored Links

  #3  
Old 16th March 2003, 04:34 PM
Rick Goodson's Avatar
Rick Goodson Rick Goodson is offline
Inactive Registered Visitor

Registration Date: Aug 2000
Location: Waukesha, Wisconsin, USA
 
Posts: 229
Thanks Given to Others: 0
Thanked 3 Times in 3 Posts
Karma Power: 42
Karma: 20
Rick Goodson has less than 100 Karma points so far.
Default

anilo,

As Darius implied, Cpk is a measurement of a process not a product. The parameters you mention are not related to the process but to the product. Cpk could be determined for individual processes in your facility. Refernce the AIAG SPC guide for more details. Go to www.aiag.com and look under publications for the SPC manual. It costs $30 for non-members.
__________________
Rick Goodson
Reply With Quote
  #4  
Old 18th March 2003, 10:08 AM
anilo anilo is offline
Involved - Posts

Registration Date: Mar 2003
Location: Italy
Age: 34
 
Posts: 23
Thanks Given to Others: 0
Thanked 2 Times in 2 Posts
Karma Power: 28
Karma: 20
anilo has less than 100 Karma points so far.
Default

thanks all.
You are right: these are product's item, not process'ones.
but to measure process capability i have to measure how good is its output; and process'output is the product.
Don Winton said:" It is ultimately desiderable to establish control over the process by controlling the process inputs. On the other hand, process capability indices are always performed using the critical parameters of the product" ("process capability studies, 1999, elsmar pdf section downloaded)
So, i think i can list all tipologies of defect, and analyze that with statistical techniques (such as Pareto etc...), but at the end i'll measure how many electronic engine system are fully functional and i extract the Cpk.
But:
1) what's the process mean in such a case?
and what is the data value?
'cause Xbar= Xi/n for i=1 to n
(i think Xi is only Pass/Failure)
2) how can i define LSL and USL ?
remind i have no specifications limits... but the product has to funcion!!

thanks again
Reply With Quote
  #5  
Old 19th March 2003, 04:29 PM
Rick Goodson's Avatar
Rick Goodson Rick Goodson is offline
Inactive Registered Visitor

Registration Date: Aug 2000
Location: Waukesha, Wisconsin, USA
 
Posts: 229
Thanks Given to Others: 0
Thanked 3 Times in 3 Posts
Karma Power: 42
Karma: 20
Rick Goodson has less than 100 Karma points so far.
Default

anilo,

You are switching back and forth from attribute and variables during your discussion. An X-bar chart is a variables control chart where pass/fail data is attribute data. You cannot plot attribute data on a variables control chart.

From the AIAG SPC 1995 publication:

Process capability is the total range of a stable process's inherent variation: 6 sigma cap sub R/d2.

For attribute data:

Process capability is usually defined as the average proportion or rate of defects or defectives. From control charts (p,c,u), for example, capability is defined as p-bar, c-bar, or u-bar where capability refers directly to the average proportion or rate of output that does not meet the specification (or as 1- p-bar, etc. the percentage of product within specification.

Ford use to use 99.994% as the minimum process capability for an attribute control chart based process capability calculation. That is, 99.994% of product had to meet the specification. I do not know if that is still a good number or not.

In essence, the ccapability is the first pass yield on the complete process.

Hope this helps.
__________________
Rick Goodson
Reply With Quote
Reply

Lower Navigation Bar
Go Back   The Elsmar Cove Forum > Common Quality Assurance Processes and Tools > Capability, Accuracy and Stability - Process, Machine, etc.

Bookmarks


Visitors Currently Viewing this Thread: 1 (0 Registered Visitors and 1 Unregistered Guests)
 
Thread Tools Search this Thread
Search this Thread:

Advanced Forum Search
Display Modes Rate Thread Content
Rate Thread Content:

Posting Settings
You may not post new threads
You may not post replies
You may not post attachments
You may not edit your posts

BB code is On
Smilies are On
[IMG] code is On
HTML code is Off

Forum Jump

Similar Discussion Threads
Discussion Thread Title Thread Starter Forum Replies Last Post or Poll Vote
A question about Cpk and Cmk - Can we use Cpk to replace Cmk? sunwen Capability, Accuracy and Stability - Process, Machine, etc. 1 11th April 2007 08:45 AM
Some questions about Cmk and Cpk Hennry Capability, Accuracy and Stability - Process, Machine, etc. 2 14th May 2005 02:20 PM
Evaluating software that measures Ppk, Cmk, Cpk, PPI, etc. Cemm Mex Capability, Accuracy and Stability - Process, Machine, etc. 5 21st June 2004 09:28 PM
Cmk and Cpk - When will we need to calculate Cmk? Machine Capability Stevenli Capability, Accuracy and Stability - Process, Machine, etc. 3 20th August 2003 09:18 PM
Any ideas on setting up Capability study spreadsheet in Excel?(CPK/CMK formulae) bagpuss Excel .xls Spreadsheet Templates and Tools 4 2nd March 2001 11:39 AM



The time now is 07:59 AM. All times are GMT -4.
The time zone can be changed in your UserCP --> Options.



   

All Y'All Come Back Now, Y' Hear?

Made With A Mac! FreeBSD OS Powered by Apache!
Using php4 Forums provided and maintained by Marc Smith Database by MySQL

FAIR USE and CORRECTNESS NOTICE: This site contains copyrighted material the use of which has not always been specifically authorized by the copyright owner. We are making such material available in our efforts to advance understanding of environmental, political, human rights, economic, democracy, scientific, and social justice issues, etc. We believe herein constitutes a 'fair use' of any such copyrighted material as provided for in section 107 of the US Copyright Law. In accordance with Title 17 U.S.C. Section 107, the material on this site is distributed without profit to those who have expressed a prior interest in receiving the included information for research and educational purposes. For more information go to: http://www.law.cornell.edu/uscode/17/ If you wish to use copyrighted material from this site for purposes of your own that go beyond 'fair use', you must obtain permission from the copyright owner. In addition, I do not guarantee the correctness of the content. The risk of using content from the Elsmar Cove web site and forums remains with the user/visitor.

Responsibility Statement: Each person is responsible for anything they post in the Elsmar Cove forum. Neither I, Marc Timothy Smith, nor any of the forum Moderators, are responsible for the content of posts people make. Liability for post content resides with the poster as does interpretation and/or acceptance and/or use of advice by the reader.

Complaints: If you have a complaint with a post in a forum discussion thread, including Content in general, fighting, flaming, copyright infringement, defamation and/or 'slander', please use the 'Report This Post Report This Post Button button which appears at the top of every post in every thread.

Site courtesy of:
Marc Timothy Smith - Cayman Business Systems, 8466 Lesourdsville-West Chester Road, West Chester, Ohio 45069-1929 - USA
(513) 341-6272

To contact me, click the Google Voice link below, enter Your Name and Your Phone Number and Google will ring your phone and connect you for free!

The Elsmar Cove Web Site is *CopyFree*
no new posts