The Elsmar Cove Wiki More Free Files The Elsmar Cove Forums Discussion Thread Index Post Attachments Listing Failure Modes Services and Solutions to Problems Elsmar cove Forums Main Page Elsmar Cove Home Page
Go Back   The Elsmar Cove Forum > ISO (International Organization for Standardization) Standards > ISO 17025 - General Metrology, Measurement Device, Calibration and Test Laboratories > Gage R&R (GR&R) and MSA (Measurement Systems Analysis)
Forum Username


Search the Elsmar Cove
Custom Search
Monitor the Elsmar Forum
Follow Marc & Elsmar
Elsmar Cove Forum RSS Feed  Marc Smith's Google+ Page  Marc Smith's Linked In Page   Marc Smith's Elsmar Cove YouTube Page  Marc Smith's Facebook Page  Elsmar Cove Twitter Feed
Elsmar Cove Groups
Elsmar Cove Google+ Group  Elsmar Cove LinkedIn Group  Elsmar Cove Facebook Group
Sponsor Links





Donate and $ Contributor Forum Access

Courtesy Quick Links

Links that Elsmar Cove visitors will find useful in your quest for knowledge:

Howard's
International Quality Services
Marcelo Antunes'
SQR Consulting
Bob Doering's
Correct SPC - Precision Machining

NIST's Engineering Statistics Handbook
IRCA - International Register of Certified Auditors
SAE - Society of Automotive Engineers
Quality Digest Portal
IEST - Institute of Environmental Sciences and Technology
ASQ - American Society for Quality

Related Topic Tags
gage r&r (repeatability and reproducibility), torque meter, torque wrench
Reply
 
Thread Tools Search this Thread Rating: Thread Rating: 1 votes, 5.00 average. Display Modes
  #1  
Old 10th June 2003, 09:46 AM
ksanders ksanders is offline
Courtesy Access

 
Registration Date: Jun 2003
Location: North Central Arkansas
Age: 52
 
Posts: 35
Thanks Given to Others: 0
Thanked 6 Times in 4 Posts
Karma Power: 49
ksanders has disabled his/her Karma.
Send a message via Skype™ to ksanders
Let Me Help You Torque Gauge R&R - Non-Replicable GRR Case Study

We have an operation that torque's an assembly together. The machine is equipped with a nutrunner torque wrench which monitors and collect the torque readings. We are being asked by our customer to provide R&R results from this process. In the past, we have just supplied the calibration cert, and that has been sufficient, but times are a-chang'in. With torque being a non-replicating feature, we are strugling with which approach is "acceptable" for evaluation.

Based on other reading from this site, the most consistent suggestion has been Nested ANOVA. I consider myself to be an above average statistician, but must confess, I don't have the slightest ideas how to preform this study. Can anyone offer some help? I have minitab, which has this feature. I just need help in organizing the study and collecting the correct data.

Has anyone found what they would consider to be the "acceptable" method for this type of study? Maybe this is one that needs to be addressed with AIAG and singled out for a clarification from the standard body.

Any comments are appreciated.

Sponsored Links
  #2  
Old 10th June 2003, 01:26 PM
Atul Khandekar's Avatar
Atul Khandekar Atul Khandekar is offline
Forum Administrator

 
Registration Date: Mar 2000
Location: Pune, India
Age: 51
 
Posts: 1,336
Thanks Given to Others: 170
Thanked 212 Times in 148 Posts
Karma Power: 400
Atul Khandekar has disabled his/her Karma.
Send a message via Skype™ to Atul Khandekar
ksanders,

Welcome to the Cove!

Here is a white paper (pdf format) from AIAG you may find useful:

***DEAD LINK REMOVED***

__________________

You are never given a wish without also being given the power to make it true. You may have to work for it, however. ~Richard Bach

Last edited by Marc; 16th February 2013 at 05:40 AM. Reason: Dead link removed.
Sponsored Links

  #3  
Old 10th June 2003, 01:54 PM
ksanders ksanders is offline
Courtesy Access

 
Registration Date: Jun 2003
Location: North Central Arkansas
Age: 52
 
Posts: 35
Thanks Given to Others: 0
Thanked 6 Times in 4 Posts
Karma Power: 49
ksanders has disabled his/her Karma.
Send a message via Skype™ to ksanders
Thanks for the info. I've conducted some taguchi studies in the past, and, at a glance, this looks kind of like the same thing. I'll take some time to review and give it a go.
  #4  
Old 11th June 2003, 04:01 PM
ksanders ksanders is offline
Courtesy Access

 
Registration Date: Jun 2003
Location: North Central Arkansas
Age: 52
 
Posts: 35
Thanks Given to Others: 0
Thanked 6 Times in 4 Posts
Karma Power: 49
ksanders has disabled his/her Karma.
Send a message via Skype™ to ksanders
Results for Comments

Attached find the results of the nested ANOVA, which shows a Total Gage R&R of 5.48% of Tolerance. My question is with the XChart by Operator. The white paper, as well as the Wheeler book, state that at least 50% of the average values should be out of control. In my case, they were all in control. In addition, on the summary results was the statement that there were zero distinct catagories.

I have to admit that the data used to analyze this process was taken consectively from the process (90 consec. readings), and plugged into the ANOVA. The white paper recommended taking consecutive part samples from various lots to simulate repetative readings on the same part, however, based on our statistical data, very little variation exists from lot to lot (CPK=20.0), so my assumption was that waiting on different lots of bolts / nuts was only going to be a waist of time.

Can the results seen on both the summary and the XChart for Operators be attributed to the means for collecting the samples, or to the fact that the process is extremely capable? Additionally, would you consider this GRR acceptable if it was accompanied with the capability data as supporting evidence that the process is (1) capable enough that there is no need for a GRR in the first place, or (2) further proof that gage capability is not in question for this process?
Attached Files: 1. Scan for viruses before using, 2. Please report any 'bad' files by Reporting this post, 3. Use at your Own Risk.
File Type: doc nested gage r&r results.doc (118.5 KB, 400 views)
  #5  
Old 3rd July 2003, 08:48 AM
Charles Charles is offline
Inactive Registered Visitor

 
Registration Date: Jan 2003
Location: UK
 
Posts: 3
Thanks Given to Others: 0
Thanked 0 Times in 0 Posts
Karma Power: 47
Karma: 10
Charles has less than 100 Karma points so far.
ksanders

Hi - you'll see from my post that we face similar issues.

I have chosen not to get embroiled with ANOVA, as it seems that a simple X-bar / R chart, summary stats and capability study (e.g. Cpk) do enough to answer the question whether the wrench is up to the job. I am open to other ideas tho !!

Charles
  #6  
Old 16th February 2013, 01:16 AM
LUV-d-4UM LUV-d-4UM is offline
$ Contributor

 
Registration Date: Sep 2007
 
Posts: 399
Thanks Given to Others: 42
Thanked 44 Times in 40 Posts
Karma Power: 67
Karma: 230
LUV-d-4UM is appreciated, and has over 200 Karma points.LUV-d-4UM is appreciated, and has over 200 Karma points.LUV-d-4UM is appreciated, and has over 200 Karma points.
Re: Results for Comments

I am in the same situation as you are. So we just do the X bar and R chart plus Cpk for the test method that follows the ASTM method.
Thanks to LUV-d-4UM for your informative Post and/or Attachment!
Reply

Lower Navigation Bar
Go Back   The Elsmar Cove Forum > ISO (International Organization for Standardization) Standards > ISO 17025 - General Metrology, Measurement Device, Calibration and Test Laboratories > Gage R&R (GR&R) and MSA (Measurement Systems Analysis)

Do you find this discussion thread helpful and informational?


Bookmarks


Visitors Currently Viewing this Thread: 1 (0 Registered Visitors (Members) and 1 Unregistered Guest Visitors)
 
Thread Tools Search this Thread
Search this Thread:

Advanced Forum Search
Display Modes Rate Thread Content
Rate Thread Content:

Forum Posting Settings
You may not post new threads
You may not post replies
You may not post attachments
You may not edit your posts

BB code is On
Smilies are On
[IMG] code is On
HTML code is Off


Similar Discussion Threads
Discussion Thread Title Thread Starter Forum Replies Last Post or Poll Vote
Should we immediately have recalibrated our Digital Torque Gauge? Izoyd ISO/TS 16949 - International Automotive Quality Systems Standard 5 15th February 2013 08:13 AM
Gage R&R for Torque Device (Non - Replicable Measurement Systems) Rubenespinosasalinas Gage R&R (GR&R) and MSA (Measurement Systems Analysis) 3 5th February 2011 01:09 PM
GRR (Gage R&R) Study for Digital Temperature Gauge Hamed Gage R&R (GR&R) and MSA (Measurement Systems Analysis) 4 22nd June 2010 07:02 AM
Norm for Acceptance Calibration Results Torque Gauge and /or Dynamometers Crombes ISO 17025 and related Metrology Topics - Measurement Devices, Calibration and Test Laboratories 5 22nd October 2009 10:44 AM
MSA - Gage R&R Study Analysis - SAMPLE - Case Study ZeeTX Gage R&R (GR&R) and MSA (Measurement Systems Analysis) 20 8th June 2006 08:43 PM



The time now is 08:38 AM. All times are GMT -4.
Your time zone can be changed in your UserCP --> Options.


   


Marc Timothy Smith - Elsmar.com
8466 LeSourdsville-West Chester Road, Olde West Chester, Ohio 45069-1929
513 341-6272