Hello all again. We have been through our phase 1 assessment audit of ISO9001:2000 in July 2003. Our phase 2 cert. audit is Aug. 11, 2003.
During the closing meeting the auditor mentioned that my original go at the process map with interactions was excellent. But he had a few comments (funny how they always start off with a compliment ). He gave me a chart of what processes this registrar expects to see mapped out under MOP's (management oriented processes), SOP's (support...) and COP's (customer...). Under the SOP's he has listed "Training"!
I am not sure what inputs or the outputs for said process are.
Does anyone have any idea that may help me.
I also had to re-do the entire process map (the one that started out as excellent) because I had too much detail originally.
I am not sure what inputs or the outputs for said process are.
Does anyone have any idea that may help me.
Dear Frustrated (Wow sounds just like Ann Landers)
No, really, this may be some more overzealousness of the registrar. I would ask where in the standard it mentions MOPs, CPOPs, SOPs, or even process maps. They aren't there. Given said that, mapping the is most common way to meet the process understanding requirements. The inputs to the process could be such things as training needs, personnel competencies, process requirements. Outputs could be training plans, competent personnel. The process is to identify the training (or rather compency) needs; determine the available compentencies; align the two and then determine how you will fill any gaps. An additional output would of course be records.
Why do you have to re-do anything? Was it because the auditor thought it was too complex, or perhaps there is no way you could live with it?
You have to meet the requirements of the standard. Never allow an auditor's interpretation of the standard to overrule yours. It is YOUR system, not the auditors.
Thanks for responding. You are right the standard does not spell out the technique for process mapping, but 4.1(a) states to identify and (b) requires that these be sequenced and their interaction known. BUt you probably know that.
The ISO website (www.iso.org/) has guidance on process mapping, so I guess even though the standard doesn't explicitely state to do it, it is implied through (get this) "interpretation" (oh, its a beautiful thing). But because the standard doesn't give clear guidance (imagine that), the registrars may set the bar for you.
You are very wise in the possible inputs and outputs that you listed, thank you.
My experience is that auditors have specific ideas of how the standard should be implemented. If you show them that you have your own ideas and they work (you "set the bar"), they will probably be okay with that. If it appears that you haven't "set the bar", then they will default to their ideas and set if for you. The key is for you to set the bar, afterall it is your bar.
He gave me a chart of what processes this registrar expects to see mapped out under MOP's (management oriented processes), SOP's (support...) and COP's (customer...). Under the SOP's he has listed "Training"!
What was on the 'chart' you were given?
__________________
A Search is a terrible thing to waste! One Test is Worth 1000 Expert Opinions - The plural of anecdote is not data.
We can't solve problems by using the same kind of thinking we used when we created them. - Unknown
During the closing meeting the auditor mentioned that my original go at the process map with interactions was excellent. But he had a few comments (funny how they always start off with a compliment ). He gave me a chart of what processes this registrar expects to see mapped out under MOP's (management oriented processes), SOP's (support...) and COP's (customer...).
Oh wow, this sounds almost word-for-word from our Registrar!!! Don't suppose you're in the steel industry?!?!
We were provided with a template for MOPs and SOPs and COPs, to be filled by us to help our External Auditors understand how our processes related to the Standard...apprently process maps just aren't enough.
That being said we have developed inputs/outputs for Recruitment, Retention and Development...just a fancy way to say Human Resources. But it combines training, safety and payroll...HR's three main areas of focus at our facility.
Inputs
Raw Materials
Identified need for human resources
Utilities - N/A
Key Paperwork
Requirement of current legislation (which we then go on to list)
Company culture and management objectives
Collective bargaining agreement
(HR/H&S) Audit and survey findings
Outputs
Finished Product
Positive morale
Low turnover
Skilled workforce
Process Data
Refer to Department Key Indicators
Human Resources, Health and Safety, and Payroll databases
[U]Key Records[U]
Appropriate Business Management System records including, but not limited to: Department Key Indicators, Training Records, Performance development records, Legistlated documents/reocrds, etc.
We also list work environment and resources and provide links to other HR/H&S document for recruitment process specifics, training programs, the Employee Training Records database and so on.
__________________
~ Roxane ~
"There's a fine line between genius and insanity. I have erased this line." - Oscar Levant
Whew, I was beginning to wonder if we were the only ones with required COPs, SOPs and MOPs. You have given me some good thoughts concerning HR and training. I am not sure why our registrar is so insistent about Training being a process, but I decided to make it an output of HR with similiar inputs.
Marc, the requirements above were listed on a sheet that the auditor was suppose to use to help us map these out, not sure other than that. I just do what I am told...just a foot soldier in someone elses army.
I have attached the process map of what I currently believe will pass, as it has already gotten somewhat of a thumbs up during the phase 1 assessment. This has the process interactions and sequenced in relation to product/production realization.
Process map of Training?
). He gave me a chart of what processes this registrar expects to see mapped out under MOP's (management oriented processes), SOP's (support...) and COP's (customer...). Under the SOP's he has listed "Training"! 
Linear Mode
