AS9102A Form Question / Riddle - Help

Tedward · Jan 30, 2015

I have a riddle (by riddle I mean frustrating problem) if anyone would like to take a shot at solving it:

I am making assembly A.

Assembly A is comprised of sub-assemblies 1, 2, 3, 4 and 5, each a specially designed circuit board with COTS components on it; detail parts (screws and bolts) 6, 7, 8, 9; and a Mil-Spec ON/OFF switch assembly, glue, and sealant, and paint.

I have a machine shop build-to-print the detail parts (screws and bolts), 6-9. We have CofC for this.

I buy the Mil-Spec ON/OFF switch assembly, glue, sealant and paint from a distributor. We have CofC for each part.

We make sub-assemblies 1,2,3,4, and 5, using build-to-print circuit cards from a circuit board manufacturer and COTS components from a distributor. We have CofC for each.

Once we have everything, we complete Assembly A using the sub-assemblies 1-5, the machine shop parts (6-9) and Mil-Spec ON/OFF switch assembly, glue, and sealant, and paint.

After Assembly A is assembled, we perform functional testing at our facility, and send to a testing company for environmental testing, which consists of waterproof testing, heat testing, and vibration testing. We receive report from testing company for these.

I am confused on what goes on which page. I realize that I need to do FAI on sub-assemblies 1-5, but on which form do I write everything else? DO I need to perform a FAI on the machine shop parts if they give a CofC?

Where does the testing go?

Sorry for all the questions!!!!!! Any help would be greatly appreciated.

Michael_M · Jan 30, 2015

Form 1 defines the details of the First Article (FA), in this case, you are making an assembly so the 'Assembly' is checked. In the center section, you will list all the FA's you have for parts that have a FA (items 1-9). Each of the 9 components will require a separate detail FA unless it is classified as 'off the shelf item' in which case it goes on form 2.

Form 2 defines the components and processes, in this case, the glue, sealant, Paint, as well as the environmental testing.

Form 3 defines the tests you perform in house (any dimensional tests, torque tests) that are required by the assembly print.

I typically perform FA's on detail parts (machine shop) so if anyone else has a better description, I will gladly learn more as well. As a note, FA's still give me trouble as it seems each customer wants something slightly different.

slightly :topic:

One of the things that has started to creep up that I have had to change on Form 2 is section 8. Multiple customers want the name, physical address, city and state of the company performing the tests. I only suggest this (and I may be wrong here) but it sounds like your new(ish) to AS9102 requirements and this is one of those small things that will drive you mad quickly.

tonefordays · Jan 30, 2015

I'll give it a shot.....

On page 1 of your AS9102 form, you would list you assy part number, rev, etc......any of the sub assemblies would be listed below by P/N, Name, S/N and list the FAI form that is associated with that part. It would have it's own AS9102 form specific to that part with all it's processes, measurements, hardware, etc...

Page 2 would list any materials/processes that would take place as an assembly, any of your "off the shelf" items would be listed where you could list certs, heat number, lot number etc.

Page 3 would list the dimensional data required as an assembly.

All your sub-assembly/pc parts would be referenced on page 1, and they would/should probably have their own dedicated AS9102 with the requirements specific to the pc part.

So your document package could end up with several AS9102 forms that covers everything within the assembly.

If you are subcontracting a part from a customer supplied drawing that needs to be fabricated, you would still be responsible for verifying the dimensions for compliance, in which case, relying on a C of C from a sub-tier probably would not be a good idea. :2cents:

@Michael,
I have also noticed customer asking for names,addresses for suppliers as well on sheet 2. I'm not sure if this is an AS9100 requirement or not, one of my customers says it just makes it easier for them for traceability.

dsanabria · Jan 31, 2015

Tedward said:
I have a riddle (by riddle I mean frustrating problem) if anyone would like to take a shot at solving it:

I am making assembly A.

Assembly A is comprised of sub-assemblies 1, 2, 3, 4 and 5, each a specially designed circuit board with COTS components on it; detail parts (screws and bolts) 6, 7, 8, 9; and a Mil-Spec ON/OFF switch assembly, glue, and sealant, and paint.

I have a machine shop build-to-print the detail parts (screws and bolts), 6-9. We have CofC for this.

I buy the Mil-Spec ON/OFF switch assembly, glue, sealant and paint from a distributor. We have CofC for each part.

We make sub-assemblies 1,2,3,4, and 5, using build-to-print circuit cards from a circuit board manufacturer and COTS components from a distributor. We have CofC for each.

Once we have everything, we complete Assembly A using the sub-assemblies 1-5, the machine shop parts (6-9) and Mil-Spec ON/OFF switch assembly, glue, and sealant, and paint.

After Assembly A is assembled, we perform functional testing at our facility, and send to a testing company for environmental testing, which consists of waterproof testing, heat testing, and vibration testing. We receive report from testing company for these.

I am confused on what goes on which page. I realize that I need to do FAI on sub-assemblies 1-5, but on which form do I write everything else? DO I need to perform a FAI on the machine shop parts if they give a CofC?

Where does the testing go?

Sorry for all the questions!!!!!! Any help would be greatly appreciated.

First - verify if the customer has their own forms or if they need to be done on-line through their portal.

Any changes to the FAIR forms required by the customer should have been part of contract review - if it wasn't - make notes for future upgrades to your management review.

Second - here are the requirements per AS9102B - pg 12

FORM 1 PART NUMBER ACCOUNTABILITY

FORM 2 PRODUCT ACCOUNTABILITY - MATERIALS, SPECIAL PROCESSES, AND FUNCTIONAL TESTING

FORM 3 CHARACTERISTIC ACCOUNTABILITY, VERIFICATION, AND COMPATIBILITY EVALUATION

reneramirez17 · Apr 11, 2015

HI, Im not to sure how to ask this question but here I go

... My company sends a new AS9102 to our customers each job (run) of the same part. new information new results. We are now trying to go away from that, we have been discussing how and what is the correct way to do this. Where do we reference the FAI where the first job was ran at. We aren't to sure how form 1 really works for section 4 and 9? Are they the same? How often do we have to send a FAIR? Can we only send a new Form 1 and Form 2 and reference form 3 on form 1? Do we also have to include bubble for each FAIR?

dsanabria · Apr 11, 2015

reneramirez17 said:
HI, Im not to sure how to ask this question but here I go ... My company sends a new AS9102 to our customers each job (run) of the same part. new information new results. We are now trying to go away from that, we have been discussing how and what is the correct way to do this. Where do we reference the FAI where the first job was ran at. We aren't to sure how form 1 really works for section 4 and 9? Are they the same? How often do we have to send a FAIR? Can we only send a new Form 1 and Form 2 and reference form 3 on form 1? Do we also have to include bubble for each FAIR?

-

It looks like you are doing a lot of unnecessary work - unless the customer is paying for it.

Take the tutorial on the Supplier Handbook and then return with your questions or for clarification.

Send me a PM if you need additional resources to guide you.

http://www.sae.org/servlets/registr...HGeneral&PAGE=getSCMHBOOK&vgenNum=184&scmhs=1

Chapter 3.4

reneramirez17 · Apr 11, 2015

It wont let me PM you. I went through the link, it really doesn't tell me what I am looking for. We are trying to get away from always doing a new FAI and send a new FAIR. Can we just send the same forms 1, 2 and 3 and just stamp reference on the sheet? or will form 1 and 2 always be new because of Outside processing? can we get away with just sending Form 1 and 2 and referencing FAI (form 3) on form 1? How do we go about shipping the AS9102.

reneramirez17 · Apr 11, 2015

Someone help please

dsanabria · Apr 11, 2015

reneramirez17 said:
Someone help please

I just send you a PM - go to the upper right corner of your screen and reply.

I will walk you through the process and answer your questions per AS9102B

dsanabria · Apr 11, 2015

reneramirez17 said:
HI, Im not to sure how to ask this question but here I go ... My company sends a new AS9102 to our customers each job (run) of the same part. new information new results.

Why is this done - part of customer requirements or lack of knowledge

Do you have a copy of AS9102B?

reneramirez17 said:
We are now trying to go away from that, we have been discussing how and what is the correct way to do this. Where do we reference the FAI where the first job was ran at.FAIR?

If the customer does not tell you to do it - then STOP IT!

Per AS9102B

1.2 Purpose

The primary purpose of FAI is to validate that product realization processes are capable of producing parts and assemblies that meet engineering and design requirements. A well-planned and executed FAI will provide objective evidence the manufacturer?s processes can produce compliant product and that they have understood and incorporated associated requirements. FAI will:

? Provide confidence that the product realization processes are capable of producing conforming product.

? Demonstrate that the manufacturers and processors of the product have an understanding of the associated requirements.

? Provide objective evidence of process capability.

? Reduce potential risks associated with production startup and/or process changes.

? Provide assurance of product conformance at the start of production and after changes outlined in this standard. An FAI is intended to:
? Reduce future escapes, risks, and total costs.

? Help ensure safety of flight.

? Improve quality, delivery, and customer satisfaction.

? Reduce costs and production delays associated with product non-conformance.

? Identify product realization processes that are not capable of producing conforming product, and initiate and/or validate corrective actions.

AS9102A Form Question / Riddle - Help

Tedward

Michael_M

tonefordays

dsanabria

Quite Involved in Discussions

reneramirez17

dsanabria

Quite Involved in Discussions

reneramirez17

reneramirez17

dsanabria

Quite Involved in Discussions

dsanabria

Quite Involved in Discussions

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