The Elsmar Cove Wiki More Free Files The Elsmar Cove Forums Discussion Thread Index Post Attachments Listing Failure Modes Services and Solutions to Problems Elsmar cove Forums Main Page Elsmar Cove Home Page

Go Back   The Elsmar Cove Forum > Common Quality Assurance Processes and Tools > Documentation Control Systems, Procedures, Forms and Templates
Forum Username

Elsmar Cove Forum Visitor Notice(s)


Elsmar Cove Forum Sidebar
Custom Search
Monitor the Elsmar Forum
Monitor New Forum Posts
Follow Marc & Elsmar
Elsmar Cove Forum RSS Feed  Marc Smith's Google+ Page  Marc Smith's Linked In Page   Marc Smith's Elsmar Cove YouTube Page  Marc Smith's Facebook Page
Elsmar Cove Groups
Elsmar Cove Google+ Group  Elsmar Cove LinkedIn Group  Elsmar Cove Facebook Group
Sponsor Links







Donate and $ Contributor Forum Access
Sponsored Links
Courtesy Quick Links

Links that Elsmar Cove visitors will find useful in your quest for knowledge:


Howard's
International Quality Services

Atul's
Symphony Technologies

Marcelo Antunes'
SQR Consulting

Bob Doering's
Correct SPC - Precision Machining


NIST's Engineering Statistics Handbook

IRCA - International Register of Certified Auditors

SAE - Society of Automotive Engineers

Quality Digest Portal

IEST - Institute of Environmental Sciences and Technology

ASQ - American Society for Quality

Reply
 
Thread Tools Search this Thread Rating: Thread Rating: 1 votes, 5.00 average. Display Modes
  #1  
Old 19th September 2003, 10:42 PM
Marla Diaz Marla Diaz is offline
Involved - Posts

 
Registration Date: Nov 1998
Location: Philippines
 
Posts: 28
Thanks Given to Others: 0
Thanked 3 Times in 2 Posts
Karma Power: 61
Karma: 40
Marla Diaz has less than 100 Karma points so far.
Send a message via Yahoo to Marla Diaz
Please Help! Moving to a Paperless Electronic Documentation System - Seeking Ideas

We have been certified for six (6) years now (9002 to 9001 version) and todate, we still have our documentation on paper. I would like to sell the idea of a paperless system to our management.

I'd like to get some ideas on how I could present it to our management. Do I have to make a study on what the advantages are to the company? Or maybe also to me, being the lead audit and document custodian at the same time? Would it take much time of our IT to me in setting up this system? What softwares would your recommend for us to use?

Apprreciate your help on this.

Thanks,
Marla (Kel)

Sponsored Links
  #2  
Old 19th September 2003, 11:47 PM
Wes Bucey's Avatar
Wes Bucey Wes Bucey is offline
Quality Manager

 
Registration Date: Sep 2003
Location: Illinois
 
Posts: 10,432
Thanks Given to Others: 452
Thanked 2,617 Times in 1,708 Posts
Karma Power: 1122
Karma: 19545
Wes Bucey is appreciated, and has over 1700 Karma points.Wes Bucey is appreciated, and has over 1700 Karma points.
Wes Bucey is appreciated, and has over 1700 Karma points.Wes Bucey is appreciated, and has over 1700 Karma points.Wes Bucey is appreciated, and has over 1700 Karma points.Wes Bucey is appreciated, and has over 1700 Karma points.Wes Bucey is appreciated, and has over 1700 Karma points.Wes Bucey is appreciated, and has over 1700 Karma points.Wes Bucey is appreciated, and has over 1700 Karma points.Wes Bucey is appreciated, and has over 1700 Karma points.Wes Bucey is appreciated, and has over 1700 Karma points.Wes Bucey is appreciated, and has over 1700 Karma points.Wes Bucey is appreciated, and has over 1700 Karma points.
May we inquire "WHY" you want to convert to paperless documentation?

Do you have lots and lots of paper? Hundreds of different forms? Frequent revisions? Multiple locations of personnel and/or production facilities? Require frequent collaboration on documents with suppliers and customers?

If so, the dollar savings in personnel and storage space would be tremendous. The soft cost benefit is that you can buy software which will automatically "push" revisions of controlled documents to all pertinent parties, assuring no one ever uses an obsolete document, thereby manufacturing an obsolete component. During the process of creation or revision, you can automatically notify via email (or even cell phone or pager) each person in the approval chain as soon as the previous person in the chain has added his authorization.

There is a capital expenditure to ensure everyone has software loaded on his machine, but that is offset by the built-in security which prevents unauthorized personnel from deleting or modifying a document. You can even have an audit trail of everyone who accesses a document and whether they made modifications.

A tremendous benefit of some software is the ability to view documents without having the resident software that created the document. So folks can read drawings even when they don't have drafting software.

Recommending specific brands of software without knowing more about your company and its needs would be counterproductive. You are not at that stage yet, anyway. You need to alert some of the bosses to the general benefits before you spend time or money looking at specific software.
Sponsored Links

  #3  
Old 20th September 2003, 12:19 AM
Marla Diaz Marla Diaz is offline
Involved - Posts

 
Registration Date: Nov 1998
Location: Philippines
 
Posts: 28
Thanks Given to Others: 0
Thanked 3 Times in 2 Posts
Karma Power: 61
Karma: 40
Marla Diaz has less than 100 Karma points so far.
Send a message via Yahoo to Marla Diaz
I'm not really sure if we have that much documentation compared to other companies. We have at least 40 procedures, 30 work instructions, 70 forms, 16 references, a quality manual and the job descriptions manual. All these belong to 9 different departments / copyholders.

But with the plan of centralizing our QMS with our branch office and another sister company, I guess this would really be of much help. These companies have about the same number of documentation like us. We have separate Quality Management Representative, Document and data control, Lead Auditor and team. Surveillance audit of the certifying body is done to each of the units and we have our own separate certificates.

Maybe we can maintain one manual for the general process functions which is more or less the same throughout the companies and only the operational procedures would be different and shall be distributed to concerned department/company.

Still have to check though with our certifying body is this is acceptable.

Thanks!
  #4  
Old 20th September 2003, 05:21 AM
Peter Fraser's Avatar
Peter Fraser Peter Fraser is offline
Appreciated Member

 
Registration Date: Sep 2003
Location: ABERDEEN, SCOTLAND, UK
 
Posts: 414
Thanks Given to Others: 24
Thanked 140 Times in 101 Posts
Karma Power: 83
Peter Fraser has disabled his/her Karma.
Quote:
In Reply to Parent Post by Marla Diaz

We have been certified for six (6) years now (9002 to 9001 version) and todate, we still have our documentation on paper. I would like to sell the idea of a paperless system to our management.

I'd like to get some ideas on how I could present it to our management. Do I have to make a study on what the advantages are to the company? Or maybe also to me, being the lead audit and document custodian at the same time? Would it take much time of our IT to me in setting up this system? What softwares would your recommend for us to use?

Apprreciate your help on this.

Thanks,
Marla (Kel)
Marla

Some basic questions first. Who is your system for? By that I mean: who uses it, who gets benefit from it, how easily can they find what they want from it? Does it help your people to understand how the business operates and how their work affects others, is it used for induction and training of staff? And is it easy to update? Or is it "just" to satisfy the external assessor?

If your people can all access your IT network or Intranet, you can publish your management system as a structured set of process descriptions (preferably as deployment flowcharts) along with a document register, and set up links to your procedures, work instructions and forms where they are needed. This makes it very easy for users to find exactly the information they need at any time. They will know that the electronic system is always the current version, and you will have no paper copies to update and distribute.

We encourage people to define their "management system" rather than just their "quality system". If you concentrate on defining how the business is run rather than on complying with ISO9K, you can accommodate external standards more easily. And this often also helps management to align the business plan with the management system by concentrating on objectives and how they are met.
__________________
Peter
"Insight through Clarity"
  #5  
Old 20th September 2003, 02:23 PM
Claes Gefvenberg's Avatar
Claes Gefvenberg Claes Gefvenberg is offline
Forum Administrator

 
Registration Date: May 2000
Location: Eskilstuna, Sweden
Age: 53
 
Posts: 4,560
Thanks Given to Others: 927
Thanked 640 Times in 444 Posts
Blog Entries: 13
Karma Power: 400
Karma: 7361
Claes Gefvenberg is appreciated, and has over 1700 Karma points.Claes Gefvenberg is appreciated, and has over 1700 Karma points.
Claes Gefvenberg is appreciated, and has over 1700 Karma points.Claes Gefvenberg is appreciated, and has over 1700 Karma points.Claes Gefvenberg is appreciated, and has over 1700 Karma points.Claes Gefvenberg is appreciated, and has over 1700 Karma points.Claes Gefvenberg is appreciated, and has over 1700 Karma points.Claes Gefvenberg is appreciated, and has over 1700 Karma points.Claes Gefvenberg is appreciated, and has over 1700 Karma points.Claes Gefvenberg is appreciated, and has over 1700 Karma points.Claes Gefvenberg is appreciated, and has over 1700 Karma points.Claes Gefvenberg is appreciated, and has over 1700 Karma points.
Hello Marla,

We have had some great discussions about paperless systems in the past. Try these links:

Document Control and Distribution - How to save paper?
4.2.3d
Notes on equipment
Paperless systems

/Claes
__________________
Hanlon's Razor.
Never attribute to malice that which can be adequately explained by stupidity.
User Groups: Elsmar Cove Cycling Enthusiasts Formula 1 fanatics Photo freaks Readers Corner

Last edited by Claes Gefvenberg; 23rd September 2003 at 06:14 AM.
  #6  
Old 22nd September 2003, 02:57 AM
Marla Diaz Marla Diaz is offline
Involved - Posts

 
Registration Date: Nov 1998
Location: Philippines
 
Posts: 28
Thanks Given to Others: 0
Thanked 3 Times in 2 Posts
Karma Power: 61
Karma: 40
Marla Diaz has less than 100 Karma points so far.
Send a message via Yahoo to Marla Diaz
Peter,

Re your basic questions...

The system is for us (employees) and we are the ones who benefit from it. If a staff needs to read a procedure or work instruction, then he/she would have to go their department manager who keeps a controlled copy. Yes, it is used for induction and training. I do all the revisions/updating using Word. No, this is not to satisfy the external auditors.

2nd paragraph of your post is a very good reason to go paperless.


Claes,

Ok, I'll take a look at the previous posts re paperless documentation.

Thanks a lot,
Marla
  #7  
Old 22nd September 2003, 03:50 AM
Peter Fraser's Avatar
Peter Fraser Peter Fraser is offline
Appreciated Member

 
Registration Date: Sep 2003
Location: ABERDEEN, SCOTLAND, UK
 
Posts: 414
Thanks Given to Others: 24
Thanked 140 Times in 101 Posts
Karma Power: 83
Peter Fraser has disabled his/her Karma.
Quote:
In Reply to Parent Post by Marla Diaz

Peter,

Re your basic questions...

The system is for us (employees) and we are the ones who benefit from it. If a staff needs to read a procedure or work instruction, then he/she would have to go their department manager who keeps a controlled copy. Yes, it is used for induction and training. I do all the revisions/updating using Word. No, this is not to satisfy the external auditors.

2nd paragraph of your post is a very good reason to go paperless.

Thanks a lot,
Marla
Marla

Glad to hear that the system is for you and not for the assessor!

The structure of your on-line system is worth thinking about. The need for a separate "quality manual" should disappear - I don't understand why the standard mentions it in the first place! We use a small number of top-level process groups ("the key steps to achieve your business objectives") as a top level index, with individual processes within each. You can then link to other processes and to supporting documentation. Our Document Register is indexed by logical top level groups too. The aim has to be to make it easy for staff to find what they want.

You will still need IT housekeeping disciplines to ensure that the "authorised" version of a document is published, and there will be times when a paper copy is needed. It is sometimes best to say that anything printed is "uncontrolled".

Re Wes Bucey's post: you can get software which will publish your system as a set of HTML files, so all staff can access it using a web browser - so no need for extra software on each PC, just for you to maintain the system.
__________________
Peter
"Insight through Clarity"
  #8  
Old 22nd September 2003, 07:52 AM
Cari Spears's Avatar
Cari Spears Cari Spears is offline
Super Moderator

 
Registration Date: May 2003
Location: Clinton Township, MI USA
Age: 44
 
Posts: 1,858
Thanks Given to Others: 693
Thanked 307 Times in 165 Posts
Karma Power: 234
Karma: 4364
Cari Spears is appreciated, and has over 1700 Karma points.
Cari Spears is appreciated, and has over 1700 Karma points.Cari Spears is appreciated, and has over 1700 Karma points.Cari Spears is appreciated, and has over 1700 Karma points.Cari Spears is appreciated, and has over 1700 Karma points.Cari Spears is appreciated, and has over 1700 Karma points.Cari Spears is appreciated, and has over 1700 Karma points.Cari Spears is appreciated, and has over 1700 Karma points.Cari Spears is appreciated, and has over 1700 Karma points.Cari Spears is appreciated, and has over 1700 Karma points.Cari Spears is appreciated, and has over 1700 Karma points.
Quote:
In Reply to Parent Post by Peter Fraser

...We encourage people to define their "management system" rather than just their "quality system". If you concentrate on defining how the business is run rather than on complying with ISO9K, you can accommodate external standards more easily. And this often also helps management to align the business plan with the management system by concentrating on objectives and how they are met.
Very well said, good points!
__________________
First thing each morning, I try on my bathing suit. Then, nothing worse can happen the rest of the day.
Reply

Lower Navigation Bar
Go Back   The Elsmar Cove Forum > Common Quality Assurance Processes and Tools > Documentation Control Systems, Procedures, Forms and Templates

Do you find this discussion thread helpful and informational?


Bookmarks


Visitors Currently Viewing this Thread: 1 (0 Registered Visitors (Members) and 1 Unregistered Guest Visitors)
 
Thread Tools Search this Thread
Search this Thread:

Advanced Forum Search
Display Modes Rate Thread Content
Rate Thread Content:

Forum Posting Settings
You may not post new threads
You may not post replies
You may not post attachments
You may not edit your posts

BB code is On
Smilies are On
[IMG] code is On
HTML code is Off


Similar Discussion Threads
Discussion Thread Title Thread Starter Forum Replies Last Post or Poll Vote
Electronic Paperless Documentation Software Discussion delia628 Documentation Control Systems, Procedures, Forms and Templates 10 22nd October 2011 12:45 PM
Slow electronic documentation system - Seeking advice gheghe Documentation Control Systems, Procedures, Forms and Templates 2 1st November 2005 08:34 PM
Electronic Storage of Documents - Paperless System Rockanna Documentation Control Systems, Procedures, Forms and Templates 7 28th October 2003 12:58 AM
Transition to Electronic Paperless System - How is Record Retention Addressed AlbertPaglinawan Records and Data - Quality, Legal and Other Evidence 11 12th April 2003 06:54 PM
Implementing a Paperless Documentation, Forms and Records System Roberto Carvajal Records and Data - Quality, Legal and Other Evidence 6 17th February 2001 12:12 AM



The time now is 07:07 AM. All times are GMT -4.
Your time zone can be changed in your UserCP --> Options.


   


Marc Timothy Smith - Elsmar.com
8466 LeSourdsville-West Chester Road, Olde West Chester, Ohio 45069-1929
513 341-6272