The Elsmar Cove Forum Gage R&R (Ranges Method) - Reproducibility standard deviation
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#1
17th October 2003, 12:25 PM
 Martin Kies Inactive Registered Visitor   Registration Date: Oct 2003 Location: Los Angeles, CA Posts: 1 Thanks Given to Others: 0 Thanked 0 Times in 0 Posts Karma Power: 43 Karma: 10
Gage R&R (Ranges Method) - Reproducibility standard deviation

I have an XL spreadsheet that someone forwarded me with the following details:

3 Operators
10 samples
3 trials

Operator A average (30 measurements) is 5.481
Operator B average (30 measurements) is 5.471
Operator C average (30 measurements) is 5.507

To get the reproducibility standard deviation, the following is used:

= (5.507 - 5.471) * 0.524

Question: where does the 0.524 come from? Actually, the full formula in the cell is a nested IF statement (if the operator sample averages were only 2 instead of 3, the constant would be 0.709), but I have shortened this for simplicity.

I have checked the usual SPC table of constants (A2, D4, d2, etc), but could not find where this one came from. I even tried some reciprocals of these constants to no avail.

Any help in where these came from would help, along with a table of this constant.

Thanks to anyone in advance who replies.

Martin

#2
17th October 2003, 12:49 PM
 ben sortin Involved in Discussions   Registration Date: Oct 2003 Location: ohio Posts: 59 Thanks Given to Others: 0 Thanked 0 Times in 0 Posts Karma Power: 48 Karma: 110
"Spreadsheet that someone forwarded me" is the root cause of your problem. I wouldn't let Euclid forward me a spreadsheet without the algorithm(s).

__________________

Does the part spin?

Ben Sortin
#3
25th October 2003, 03:52 AM
 Atul Khandekar Forum Administrator   Registration Date: Mar 2000 Location: Pune, India Age: 51 Posts: 1,336 Thanks Given to Others: 170 Thanked 212 Times in 148 Posts Karma Power: 400
Quote:
 In Reply to Parent Post by Martin Kies To get the reproducibility standard deviation, the following is used: = (5.507 - 5.471) * 0.524 Question: where does the 0.524 come from? I have checked the usual SPC table of constants (A2, D4, d2, etc), but could not find where this one came from. I even tried some reciprocals of these constants to no avail. Any help in where these came from would help, along with a table of this constant.
Martin,
First off, Welcome to the Cove!

I would suggest you get hold of the AIAG MSA Manual - third edition, where R&R procedures, formulas and constants are explained. ( http://www.aiag.org )

Appraiser Variation (AV) or reproducibility is calculated by dividing the range of appraiser averages by a constant d2*. K2 is the inverse of d2*. The manual gives the complete table for d2*.

AV = XBar_Diff *K2
K2 = 1 / d2*

For 2 operators: d2*= 1.41421; K2= 0.7071
For 3 operators: d2*= 1.91155; K2= 0.5231

The formula you have given appears incomplete. The reproducibility value obtained as above has to be adjusted to remove the 'contamination' by Equipment Variation (EV), because taking the appraiser averages does not completely isolate AV & EV. The complete formula is:

AV = Sqrt( (XBar_Diff *K2)^2 - (EV^2/nr) ), where
n = No of Samples
r = No of Trials

Hope this helps..

-Atul.

__________________

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#4
28th October 2003, 03:53 AM
 candy_hy Unregistered Guest Posts: n/a

Sometimes I've use 1 operator in GR&R, But it's difficut to find these factor for 1 operator, m Samples and n Trials.

Please tell me how to get these factors?

Thank you.
#5
28th October 2003, 05:54 AM
 Atul Khandekar Forum Administrator   Registration Date: Mar 2000 Location: Pune, India Age: 51 Posts: 1,336 Thanks Given to Others: 170 Thanked 212 Times in 148 Posts Karma Power: 400
Quote:
 In Reply to Parent Post by candy_hy Sometimes I've use 1 operator in GR&R, But it's difficut to find these factor for 1 operator, m Samples and n Trials. Please tell me how to get these factors?
candy_hy,

Welcome to the Cove Forums.

Reproducibility can be calculated only when you have more than one operator in a GRR study. For one operator, AV=0. So there should be no need to find out the value of K2 factor - its not given in the AIAG manual.

Also see: R&R study with one appraiser

Hope this helps.

- Atul.

__________________

You are never given a wish without also being given the power to make it true. You may have to work for it, however. ~Richard Bach

 The Elsmar Cove Forum Gage R&R (Ranges Method) - Reproducibility standard deviation

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