What makes an Organisation? How does it evolve?

[pthareja]

should the (quality in) organisation evolve coherently with the systems, or the systems are ebeded after the organisation is born?

Pthareja

[Craig H.]

Originally Posted by pthareja

should the (quality in) organisation evolve coherently with the systems, or the systems are ebeded after the organisation is born?

Pthareja

Pthareja

The way I see it, the organization is the sum of the systems. Ergo, when one evolves, the other(s) evolve as well.

Why try to seperate them?

Craig

[Wes Bucey]

Originally Posted by Craig H.

Pthareja

The way I see it, the organization is the sum of the systems. Ergo, when one evolves, the other(s) evolve as well.

Why try to seperate them?

Craig

Given the narrow scope of the poll, choosing anything other than the choice about evolving with the organization ["and the systems are laden/ imbibed after its birth"] would mean negating the entire concept of ISO and its evolving Standards.

(Even a wordsmith such as I is unsure about the use of the word "laden" in this context. Normally, I would interpret "laden" as being burdensome. In my view, Systems are for making processes LESS burdensome. However, being an "imbiber" of long standing and some reknown, I certainly approve of imbibed as a verb! )

[Randy Stewart]

My thoughts go this way. Before you start off on something you have an idea of what you want to accomplish. Therefore you would have some sort of basic plan prior to beginning an organization.
Yes the system would evolve after birth, but the first step is not taken without being somewhat organized.

[Manoj Mathur]

I would love to reply on this topic. Actually, I was thinking this subject for past One Month. I used to think in my Company who is an ISO 9K, 14K, TS 16949 certified and Implementor of many concepts of WCM (World Class Manufacturing ahead of Lean Manufacturing or Toyota Production System) is still feeling these systems are bit artificial and not in the mainstream topic. I usally hear that people assosiate My name in the company with any activities related to ISO or TS or WCM, They consider it is MR sole accountability.

Hence In the light of above, I am planning to identify the stumbling Blocks and than remove one by one who are responsible for Natural Way of Implementation of SYSTEMS. I Call this approach as BREATHING "APPROACH".
I say without any doubt that the most essential thing in one's life is breathing but nobody treat it as an artificial. What is the reason? I shall try to apply a system based on Breathing. It is a Five Step approach of Breathing, First, I shall identify the problem which my people are facing with any system, ISO or TS2 or WCM or any, Then we shall try to seek alternatives of purpose with a clear validation. and .........

Any taker of BREATHING

[Craig H.]

Originally Posted by Manoj Mathur

I would love to reply on this topic. Actually, I was thinking this subject for past One Month. I used to think in my Company who is an ISO 9K, 14K, TS 16949 certified and Implementor of many concepts of WCM (World Class Manufacturing ahead of Lean Manufacturing or Toyota Production System) is still feeling these systems are bit artificial and not in the mainstream topic. I usally hear that people assosiate My name in the company with any activities related to ISO or TS or WCM, They consider it is MR sole accountability.

Hence In the light of above, I am planning to identify the stumbling Blocks and than remove one by one who are responsible for Natural Way of Implementation of SYSTEMS. I Call this approach as BREATHING "APPROACH".
I say without any doubt that the most essential thing in one's life is breathing but nobody treat it as an artificial. What is the reason? I shall try to apply a system based on Breathing. It is a Five Step approach of Breathing, First, I shall identify the problem which my people are facing with any system, ISO or TS2 or WCM or any, Then we shall try to seek alternatives of purpose with a clear validation. and .........

Any taker of BREATHING

Manoj:

This makes lots of sense. It is kind of like the concept in the book of 5 rings, the Samuri handbook, that says that when fighting you should use your normal walk - not try to adapt some special style that is unnatural. In business, we should not have to stop and think what the procedure says or what the spec is. It is best if we work to the procedure and make good stuff naturally, as a result of a good system and lots of practice.

It all goes to the topic alluded to here in the Cove time and time again. It is not a Quality system, its a Business system.

Good post!

Craig

[Tom W]

Originally Posted by Manoj Mathur

I would love to reply on this topic. Actually, I was thinking this subject for past One Month. I used to think in my Company who is an ISO 9K, 14K, TS 16949 certified and Implementor of many concepts of WCM (World Class Manufacturing ahead of Lean Manufacturing or Toyota Production System) is still feeling these systems are bit artificial and not in the mainstream topic. I usally hear that people assosiate My name in the company with any activities related to ISO or TS or WCM, They consider it is MR sole accountability.

Hence In the light of above, I am planning to identify the stumbling Blocks and than remove one by one who are responsible for Natural Way of Implementation of SYSTEMS. I Call this approach as BREATHING "APPROACH".
I say without any doubt that the most essential thing in one's life is breathing but nobody treat it as an artificial. What is the reason? I shall try to apply a system based on Breathing. It is a Five Step approach of Breathing, First, I shall identify the problem which my people are facing with any system, ISO or TS2 or WCM or any, Then we shall try to seek alternatives of purpose with a clear validation.

I agree. The system should be seen as a tool to improvements. Not just a piece of paper on the wall. Buy-in to the system is required for the successful use of the system. THe breathing concept is a good one.

[pthareja]

Yeah!
Thanks to Craig, Manoj, Wes Bucey, Randy and Tom for your postings and polls.

Akin to breathing the systrms are essential for an organisation's survival.
Breathing as a matter of fact starts soon after the birth of an infant, and some times the Doc has to induce it. ala a jerk. Laden by tapping.
A healthy child should imbibe (?) that without extra-natural impetus.

Rightly said, ISO 9k2k systems are put in place only after the organisation has evolved. But to what extent a lack of planning for a judicious systemic constitution caould be fatal is not a big guess.

So, how essential is it to put the system in place before the birth of an organisation? What aspects of sytems should be in place at the time of birth? And how/ what to top it up after the organisation has shaped up*, ready to be a WCO ( world class organisation). (* even refering to the ISO9K2K clauses)?

Thareja