Attitudes and Intimidation in Elsmar Cove forum Posts

[Bigfoot]

Gosh Marc, It almost sounds as though the Cove Forums have become "Politically Correct". But I would also like to add, as one of those on again off again lurkers, that this place & / or this profession is not for the timid. If you have thin skin you are going to have problems.

[J Oliphant]

In Reply to Parent Post by Bigfoot

Gosh Marc, It almost sounds as though the Cove Forums have become "Politically Correct". But I would also like to add, as one of those on again off again lurkers, that this place & / or this profession is not for the timid. If you have thin skin you are going to have problems.

Ok, but I've got a comment about that. I was just pondering the value of participating here; and rudeness (in my opinion) detracts greatly the pleasure and usefulness of this whole forum.

you can call a hollow argument, or a misinformed decision misinformed. But people are not to be attacked. we go here in part to contribute in a professional level, and we need to be respected as professionals.

One of the internets great downfalls, is that you are too insulated from the community that you are speaking to. I might never personally meet Steve prevette, wes brucy, Bill pflanz, Mike S, etc (Honest I'd mention you all, if I could ). But as I write I am speaking to you. My own behavior should reflect that my audience has both dedicated seekers of the truth and masters of great knowledge, that might be able to build upon your own understanding. and this basic humility and respect should stick with you whether you've written doctrinal dissertations of statistical distributions or you just struggle to spell deming.

I strongly believe there are no such things as stupid questions, but sometimes there are complex answers. And us newby's deserve respect as we seek answers...

[Marc]

In Reply to Parent Post by Bigfoot

Gosh Marc, It almost sounds as though the Cove Forums have become "Politically Correct". But I would also like to add, as one of those on again off again lurkers, that this place & / or this profession is not for the timid. If you have thin skin you are going to have problems.

I think this was more true in the past. Since December I've been very happy about the direction of these forums. I will say one thing - The forums have been online for about 7 years in one software or another - vBulletin coming online in August 2001 {and incorporating posts from UltimateBB going back to about June 1998} if I remember correctly - and it's still here.

The forums are as much a 'Chit Chat' place for a lot of people as a source of information - and that does make a difference to many people. It is a place where people who like this medium can interact.

It is not the ASQ forums and neither will ever supplant the other because the whole idea here is different. This is a place where people are more open and that's not just a consequence of being open to the public. People can and do say things here they could not say on the ASQ forums, and it's a different mindset here.

The ASQ forums are fine for many people. Others like it here. But it's not competition - it's just different here than it is there.

As for these forums becoming 'politically correct', I tend to just look at it as more focused. There was profanity we didn't need, there have been 'attitudes' (including mine), and other things which diluted the usefullness and intent of the forums. Things change as time goes on. The internet as a whole is vastly different than it was when I started this site in January 1996.

Anyone remember the name of the forum which was online for years but finally spiraled out of control (it was not moderated)? I forget what the name was but for a while this forum was following the same path, but more slowly.

[CarolX]

In Reply to Parent Post by Marc

Anyone remember the name of the forum which was online for years but finally spiraled out of control (it was not moderated)? I forget what the name was but for a while this forum was following the same path, but more slowly.

Can't remember the name, but I know the one you are talking about. Some jerk got on the board and had NOTHING nice to say to anyone our about anything. That's when I found the Cove....and never went back!

Carol

[Craig H.]

In Reply to Parent Post by J Oliphant

One of the internets great downfalls, is that you are too insulated from the community that you are speaking to. I might never personally meet Steve prevette, wes brucy, Bill pflanz, Mike S, etc (Honest I'd mention you all, if I could ). But as I write I am speaking to you. My own behavior should reflect that my audience has both dedicated seekers of the truth and masters of great knowledge, that might be able to build upon your own understanding. and this basic humility and respect should stick with you whether you've written doctrinal dissertations of statistical distributions or you just struggle to spell deming.

Very well said.

As one of those who was around, and actively participated in, the deadly spiral, I have to say that the Cove now does a much better job of fulfilling what I believe was Marc's intention - its mission, if you will. Marc did a very good job of pulling us out of a flat spin.

The tone is different, and much more effective. It was hard to concentrate on Quality after leaving the "Contemplating... " thread for instance. (Don't look for it - it has been, thankfully purged. If you don't remember it, all the better. Not that what we discussed wasn't important, just not important to quality).

Now, with some of the "newbies" (if you want to call experts that) we have indeed risen to a higher intellectual level.

Stupid questions? I'll try not to ask any. Stupid comments? Same. But, the beauty of the Cove is that it is casual enough where we can run something out for all our Q friends to see, and get good advice before we do something at the office that allows our coworkers to figure out the Quality King has on no clothes.

And that alone is worth much more than the price of admission.

[NAOTB]

As a very recent newcomer to the cove I find it funny that you have vernacular that appear to describe different levels of expertise.

Anyone new to Quality and especially ISO requirements relish the chance to ask questions nobody in their organization can provide answers for.

The people who have helped me here with what I also thought might be foolish or amateur questions have also encouraged me to ask questions in the forum and not as many as private messages for the sake of helping other "newbies".
Otherwise where are the level 3 documents telling you where to find specific information in the cove.

I thank all of you for that and anyone else can get over themselves.


New Auditor on the block

[Wes Bucey]

In Reply to Parent Post by NAOTB

As a very recent newcomer to the cove I find it funny that you have vernacular that appear to describe different levels of expertise.

Anyone new to Quality and especially ISO requirements relish the chance to ask questions nobody in their organization can provide answers for.

The people who have helped me here with what I also thought might be foolish or amateur questions have also encouraged me to ask questions in the forum and not as many as private messages for the sake of helping other "newbies".
Otherwise where are the level 3 documents telling you where to find specific information in the cove.

I thank all of you for that and anyone else can get over themselves.


New Auditor on the block

In my own mind (often a scary place), I have two working definitions for "newbies"

1. people new to the Cove, who are still working their way through navigation and protocol in a feature-rich environment, regardless of their Quality "credentials"
2. people who are new to "Standardized" Quality, who are struggling with straight definitions and nuances of Quality Standards and government Regulations, together with "Customer Requirements" from super trans-national customers.

The newbies are only a small part of the Cove universe. No matter how experienced and savvy we may be, we all run into a "poser" from time to time. Andrew Carnegie had a concept called the "Group Mind" in which the whole was greater than the sum of the parts. The Cove is a Group Mind and those who have the courage to overcome shyness and potential for embarrassment can ask those kind of questions here they are leery of posing at work. (Often, there is no one at work to ask!)

Another small segment of the Cove universe are those Mentors who give freely of the experience and knowledge they have gained over years. In some small way, it is "payback" for the kindness of others who helped them survive to gain the knowledge and experience they now share.

Finally, it is nice to have a place which is the cyber equivalent of "Cheers" where everyone knows your name.

(What was the character name of Coach, anyway?)

[Marc]

So - Should we rename the Coffee Break forum Cheers? If you've looked at the most 'popular' forum (do the popup for an extended listing) in the statistics.... The Coffee Break forum is #2.