The Elsmar Cove Forum and Site Map The Elsmar Cove Wiki More Free Files The Elsmar Cove Forums Discussion Thread Index Post Attachments Listing Failure Modes Services and Solutions to Problems Elsmar cove Forums Main Page Elsmar Cove Home Page

Go Back   The Elsmar Cove Forum > National and International Business Standards > Various Other Specifications, Standards, and related Requirements


The Elsmar Cove Forum SideBar!
Monitor the Forum
Monitor New Forum Posts
New Threads Feeds
RSS FeedRSS Feed
Sponsor Link










$ Contributor Forum Access
Courtesy Quick Links

Links that Elsmar Cove visitors will find useful in your quest for knowledge:


Howard's International Quality Services

Atul's Symphony Technologies

Dave Scott's Scott Quality Solutions

Praxiom Research Group


NIST's Engineering Statistics Handbook

IRCA - International Register of Certified Auditors

SAE - Society of Automotive Engineers

Quality Digest Portal

IEST - Institute of Environmental Sciences and Technology

ASQ - American Society for Quality


All the Important Standards and Related Web Sites in the World
Reply
 
Thread Tools Search this Thread Rate Thread Content Display Modes
  #1  
Old 29th January 2004, 08:27 PM
Jnier Jnier is offline
Inactive Registered Visitor

Registration Date: Oct 2003
Location: Long Beach, California
 
Posts: 4
Thanks Given to Others: 0
Thanked 0 Times in 0 Posts
Karma Power: 25
Karma: 10
Jnier has less than 100 Karma points so far.
Listen To Me! AS9102 Revision A Released - 28 January 2004

I just received notice from a customer that AS9102 has been released in A revision. It will take 1 week for my company to obtain a copy from the service we use. I would like to get a jump on this and was wondering if anyone has reviewed it yet and has any comments?
Reply With Quote

Sponsored Links
  #2  
Old 30th January 2004, 10:31 AM
CarolX's Avatar
CarolX CarolX is offline
Super Moderator

Registration Date: Jun 2000
Location: North of Chicago,Illinois, USA
Age: 49
 
Posts: 2,087
Thanks Given to Others: 419
Thanked 314 Times in 234 Posts
Karma Power: 176
Karma: 4810
CarolX is appreciated, and has over 1700 Karma points.
CarolX is appreciated, and has over 1700 Karma points.CarolX is appreciated, and has over 1700 Karma points.CarolX is appreciated, and has over 1700 Karma points.CarolX is appreciated, and has over 1700 Karma points.CarolX is appreciated, and has over 1700 Karma points.CarolX is appreciated, and has over 1700 Karma points.CarolX is appreciated, and has over 1700 Karma points.CarolX is appreciated, and has over 1700 Karma points.CarolX is appreciated, and has over 1700 Karma points.CarolX is appreciated, and has over 1700 Karma points.CarolX is appreciated, and has over 1700 Karma points.CarolX is appreciated, and has over 1700 Karma points.
Default

Jneir,

I moved your post over to this board. You may get more response here.

CarolX
__________________
CarolX

Theater is life, film is art, and television is furniture.
Reply With Quote
Sponsored Links

  #3  
Old 2nd February 2004, 01:12 PM
Jnier Jnier is offline
Inactive Registered Visitor

Registration Date: Oct 2003
Location: Long Beach, California
 
Posts: 4
Thanks Given to Others: 0
Thanked 0 Times in 0 Posts
Karma Power: 25
Karma: 10
Jnier has less than 100 Karma points so far.
Default As9102

Carol.
Thanks. I wasn't sure where to ask this question.
Reply With Quote
  #4  
Old 2nd February 2004, 02:12 PM
CarolX's Avatar
CarolX CarolX is offline
Super Moderator

Registration Date: Jun 2000
Location: North of Chicago,Illinois, USA
Age: 49
 
Posts: 2,087
Thanks Given to Others: 419
Thanked 314 Times in 234 Posts
Karma Power: 176
Karma: 4810
CarolX is appreciated, and has over 1700 Karma points.
CarolX is appreciated, and has over 1700 Karma points.CarolX is appreciated, and has over 1700 Karma points.CarolX is appreciated, and has over 1700 Karma points.CarolX is appreciated, and has over 1700 Karma points.CarolX is appreciated, and has over 1700 Karma points.CarolX is appreciated, and has over 1700 Karma points.CarolX is appreciated, and has over 1700 Karma points.CarolX is appreciated, and has over 1700 Karma points.CarolX is appreciated, and has over 1700 Karma points.CarolX is appreciated, and has over 1700 Karma points.CarolX is appreciated, and has over 1700 Karma points.CarolX is appreciated, and has over 1700 Karma points.
Default

Anybody got any info on this one for Jnier?
__________________
CarolX

Theater is life, film is art, and television is furniture.
Reply With Quote
  #5  
Old 3rd February 2004, 06:58 AM
dbulak's Avatar
dbulak dbulak is offline
Involved in Discussions

Registration Date: Aug 2000
Location: usa
Age: 58
 
Posts: 195
Thanks Given to Others: 54
Thanked 1 Time in 1 Post
Karma Power: 41
Karma: 20
dbulak has less than 100 Karma points so far.
Default Same Standards

AS9100 and AS9102A? Same standard but just updated?
Reply With Quote
  #6  
Old 3rd February 2004, 11:01 AM
Wes Bucey's Avatar
Wes Bucey Wes Bucey is offline
Quality Manager

Registration Date: Sep 2003
Location: Illinois
 
Posts: 7,537
Thanks Given to Others: 182
Thanked 1,127 Times in 762 Posts
Karma Power: 397
Karma: 11090
Wes Bucey is appreciated, and has over 1700 Karma points.Wes Bucey is appreciated, and has over 1700 Karma points.Wes Bucey is appreciated, and has over 1700 Karma points.
Wes Bucey is appreciated, and has over 1700 Karma points.Wes Bucey is appreciated, and has over 1700 Karma points.Wes Bucey is appreciated, and has over 1700 Karma points.Wes Bucey is appreciated, and has over 1700 Karma points.Wes Bucey is appreciated, and has over 1700 Karma points.Wes Bucey is appreciated, and has over 1700 Karma points.Wes Bucey is appreciated, and has over 1700 Karma points.Wes Bucey is appreciated, and has over 1700 Karma points.Wes Bucey is appreciated, and has over 1700 Karma points.Wes Bucey is appreciated, and has over 1700 Karma points.Wes Bucey is appreciated, and has over 1700 Karma points.Wes Bucey is appreciated, and has over 1700 Karma points.
Default

Quote:
Originally Posted by dbulak

AS9100 and AS9102A? Same standard but just updated?
To my knowledge, yes, it is just revision A of the Standard for First Articles.


Scope:
This SAE Aerospace Standard (AS) establishes documentation requirements for the First Article Inspection (FAI).
The purpose of the First Article Inspection is to provide objective evidence that all engineering design and specification requirements are properly understood, accounted for, verified, and documented. The purpose of this standard is to provide a consistent documentation requirement for aerospace components FAI.

I am curious over all the worry about a Standard freely and instantaneously available for $99 retail, $79.20 for SAE members.
Buy it here, you can download directly from Web
http://www.sae.org/servlets/productD...ROD_CD=AS9102A

Added by edit:
OK. Maybe I was too curt and harsh the first time.
Here's a summary of the goals in changes to the Standard by the Committee:

Improved Layout and Readability of the Standard
-Use of “Simplified English” (AECMA Guideline)
-Simplified, Color Coded Forms
Eliminated “Points of Confusion”
-Clarified “Mandatory Requirements” and Clearly Identified “Optional” Elements
-Re-identified “Guidelines” that Were Disguised as Requirements
-Forms Broken Away From the Main Document - Allowed Focus Back on Requirements
-Eliminated Contradictions Between Forms and Requirements
Provided Open Fields for Company Specific Non-9102 Requirements e.g. Process Assurance
__________________
"Few minds wear out; more rust out"
Inscribed over the entrance of Louis Pasteur School, Chicago
Christian Nestell Bovee (1820-1904) in Thoughts, Feelings and Fancies, 1857

Last edited by Wes Bucey; 3rd February 2004 at 11:51 AM. Reason: Added review of revision points - too curt first time
Reply With Quote
Thanks to Wes Bucey for your informative Post and/or Attachment!
  #7  
Old 3rd February 2004, 06:25 PM
Jnier Jnier is offline
Inactive Registered Visitor

Registration Date: Oct 2003
Location: Long Beach, California
 
Posts: 4
Thanks Given to Others: 0
Thanked 0 Times in 0 Posts
Karma Power: 25
Karma: 10
Jnier has less than 100 Karma points so far.
Default Thanks for the Info

Wes,
The company I work is getting me the RevA. I should have it by thursday. I am at the mercy of the document control department. I would have downloaded it from SAE if I could have. Thanks for the heads up on the changes.

Jennifer
Reply With Quote
  #8  
Old 8th July 2008, 12:25 AM
Sidney Vianna's Avatar
Sidney Vianna Sidney Vianna is offline
Post responsibly

Registration Date: Oct 2001
Location: Long Beach, CA - USofA
 
Posts: 4,951
Thanks Given to Others: 688
Thanked 1,912 Times in 1,083 Posts
Karma Power: 467
Karma: 16797
Sidney Vianna is appreciated, and has over 1700 Karma points.
Sidney Vianna is appreciated, and has over 1700 Karma points.Sidney Vianna is appreciated, and has over 1700 Karma points.Sidney Vianna is appreciated, and has over 1700 Karma points.Sidney Vianna is appreciated, and has over 1700 Karma points.Sidney Vianna is appreciated, and has over 1700 Karma points.Sidney Vianna is appreciated, and has over 1700 Karma points.Sidney Vianna is appreciated, and has over 1700 Karma points.Sidney Vianna is appreciated, and has over 1700 Karma points.Sidney Vianna is appreciated, and has over 1700 Karma points.Sidney Vianna is appreciated, and has over 1700 Karma points.Sidney Vianna is appreciated, and has over 1700 Karma points.
Default Re: AS9102 Revision A Released - 28 January 2004

Please note that a revised 9102 FAQ page has been posted at the IAQG website:
http://www.iaqg.sae.org/iaqg/publications/faq9102.htm
Quote:
Originally Posted by IAQG website

9102 Rev A
Aerospace First Article Inspection Requirement (FAI)
Frequently Asked Questions (FAQ's)
[/SIZE]
June 7, 2008
Forward
International Aerospace Group (IAQG) procedure 103 defines the process for providing "clarifications" to published standards. Below are clarification questions and responses received by the Sector Document Representatives (SDR's) over the past three years. It is intended that these FAQ's be updated as new questions are received.
Standards provide requirements but are prohibited from providing methods for meeting those requirements.
The 9102 standard is not intended to be used to assess compliance to any other published standard.
9102 may be self imposed or required by contract but is not required by any other published standard.
To use this document, scroll through or use the links in the Table below. To return, use "Control Home" on your keyboard.
Table:
A. Forms Usage
B. When to Perform an FAI
C. Standard Catalog Hardware (SCH)
D. Similar Parts
E. Purchase Order Requirements
F. General Questions
A. Forms Usage
A1. Question:
Are requirements defined as "CR" in the forms ( 1-3 ) to be filled only when there is a special requirement from the customer or, always filled when applicable?
A1. Response:
"Special requirement from the customer" is only an example. "CR" items must be filled in when "applicable". For example, not all parts have a serial number but when they do because of engineering, you must fill in that block (form 1 block 3). The same is true for the other "CR" blocks. When not applicable or required by engineering, leave them blank or write N/A.
A2. Question:
What are some examples entries for form 1, field 9 (required field)
A2. Response:
The intent is to provide linkage to the planning/router that was used during the manufacture of the FAI part/assembly. Some companies track parts with a production control number and a "router issue number". Production control numbers are usually for cost collection and order tracking and router issue can be directly correlated to the router. You may use anything that provides linkage to the exact router/planning used during FAI.
A3. Question:
Form 1 Field #9: Manufacturing Process Reference. Please elaborate on what is required?
A3. Response:
The purpose of field 9 on form 1 is to provide traceability from the FAI part to the router/planning used to manufacture the part. Any number or reference that provides that traceability is acceptable.
A4. Question:
Are the forms in the standard examples or are they mandatory?
A4. Response:
You may create your own forms but they must require the same information as the forms provided and must be numbered with the same box numbers. See 5.5.1..... Forms other than those contained in the Appendix may be used; however they must contain all "Required" and "Conditionally Required" information and have the same field reference numbers.
A5. Question:
Can parts lists, reports and other records be noted on the forms and attached rather than copying all the data onto the forms?
A5. Response:
Yes, you may reference the attachments on the forms and attach parts lists, reports etc. You may also attach drawings to form 3 and note the drawing on the form as long as the characteristics and results are clearly identified on the drawing. Any efficient, time saving method is acceptable but you must maintain traceability and the data on the attachments must be verified.
A5. Question:
Form 1 Field #9: Manufacturing Process Reference. Please elaborate on what is required?
A5. Response:
The purpose of field 9 on form 1 is to provide traceability from the FAI part to the router/planning used to manufacture the part. Any number or reference that provides that traceability is acceptable. (moved as A3, because of related topic)
A6. Question:
How should multiple pages of forms be numbered?
A6. Response:
Each form is to numbered independent of the others. The reason for three forms is that in some companies, different people or organizations fill out the different forms. It is acceptable to combine them.
A.7 Question:
Can an electronic signature be used in block 19 of form 1?
A7. Response:
An electronic signature is acceptable as long as it is acceptable within your Quality management system. The Quality management system must define electronic signature usage and control.
A8. Question:
Form 1 block 14 - What does baseline mean?
A8. Response:
Baseline means the last or previously "approved" FAI
A9. Question:
Form 2 box 7 - What should be entered in this field?
A9. Response:
Block 7 on form 2 is an optional field. Some companies have special codes for different processes and require an entry in this field. If you or your customer has no special code, leave the block blank or mark it N/A.
A10. Question:
If using electronic forms and have multiple pages, what fields are required on subsequent pages for each form?
A10. Response:
If you are using electronic forms, you can just add rows and additional sheets won't be required. If you are converting the forms to paper and need additional pages, follow the note at the top of the forms instructions: "NOTE: Fields 1-4 are repeated on all forms for convenience and traceability." Repeat fields 1-4 on each additional sheet.
A11. Question:
What is the purpose of block 14 on form 3?
A11. Response:
Form 3 Box 14 is an optional field for the user to add columns and information that are in addition to the requirements of the standard. Since it is optional and at your discretion, you may add columns and titles for those columns as you see fit. You may not rearrange or change any other portion of the form.
A12. Question:
What are "characteristic designators" for form 3 box 7?
A12. Response:
"Characteristic designators" are identified on engineering documents. Applicable design engineering also establishes definitions of those designators (including major/minor characteristics, key characteristics, structural characteristics, etc.). 9102 can not provide these definitions.
A13. Question:
Where are instructions for filling out the 9102 forms block by block?
A13. Response:
Instructions for completing the 9102 forms are contained within 9102, block by block. To comply with the standard, you should have an internal procedure defining your method. You can purchase 9102 in many languages from approved publishers like SAE, SJAC & ASD-STAN.
B. When to Perform an FAI
B1. Question:
When a lapse in production of 2 or more years occurs, iIs a Full or Partial FAI required?
B1. Response:
A Full FAI would be required. If you perform Partial FAI, you have to clarify the reason why you choose Partial FAI instead of Full FAI and record the reason on field No.14 of Form 1.
B2. Question:
After an initial FAI is complete, is a supplier required to complete partial FAI's when inspection frequency and methods are changed?
B2. Response:
FAI (Complete/Partial) would be required for the changed inspection when the tool listed on Form 3 field 10 is changed.
B3. Question:
If Manufacturing is moved from one location/facility to another, is a new FAI required?
B3. Response:
9102 - 5.3.2 states: A change in manufacturing source(s), process(es), inspection method(s), location of manufacture, tooling or materials, that can potentially affect fit, form or function. The key wording is "potentially affect fit, form or function". If you have good rationale supporting a position that the change doesn't "potentially affect fit, form or function" (and you can convince your customer) an updated FAI is not required. The move distance isn't a factor. Record the reason for Partial FAI on field No.14 of Form 1.
B4. Question:
Can an Assembly FAI be completed when one or more of the detail parts has not completed the FAI process?
B4. Response:
Unless the failed detail FAI affects the fit, form or function of the assembly, the Assembly FAI can be completed if it complies with 9102. The failed detail stands on its own, and it alone requires a FAI in accordance with paragraph 5.4.
B5. Question:
When engineering provides alternates (material, fasteners, etc) must the FAI be repeated when the alternate is used?
B5. Response:
At minimum, a partial FAI would be required when an alternate to that in the baseline FAI is used. This is to account for compliance to the engineering used requirement. How much more would depend on your assessment of the potential for affecting fit, form or function.
B6. Question:
When the supplier for a process specified by the drawing is changed, must the FAI be redone?
B6. Response:
Yes, you or your new supplier must perform a partial FAI covering the processes/characteristics moved. Moving to a new supplier provides the "Potential" to affect fit, form or function. Also see answer to question B3.
B7. Question:
If a baseline FAI exists but is to a system used prior to 9102, must the baseline FAI be updated to 9102 prior to performing a new partial FAI.
B7. Response:
9102 is not retroactive. A 9102 partial may be completed using the original completed baseline.
B8. Question:
In 5.3, there are conditions that require a new or partial FAI when a change occurs "that can potentially affect fit, form or function". How is this assessed?
B8. Response:
The only people able to evaluate these changes for "fit, form or function" are those knowing the product, the processes, the environment and knowing which problems occurred in the past (lessons learned). These people belong to the producer ("the organization" in 9100). You may also be influenced by your customer. Standards provide requirements but cannot provide methods for meeting the requirements.
C. Standard Catalog Hardware (SCH)
C1. Question:
Where is Standard Catalog Hardware (SCH) entered on the First Article Inspection Report (FAIR)?
C1. Response:
Standard Catalog Hardware (SCH), when used as purchased, is entered on form 1 using its catalog part number. When SCH is being used as a "make from" part or as raw material, it is entered on form 2 and the engineered part in which it is consumed is entered on form 1
C2. Question:
How is standard Catalog Hardware defined?
C2. Response:
Any item purchased from a catalog available to the public is considered Standard Catalog Hardware. 9102 A defines STANDARD CATALOG HARDWARE as: A part or material that conforms to an established industry or national authority published specification, having all characteristics identified by text description, National/Military Standard Drawing, or catalog item.
C3. Question:
Are company designed standards, like Boeing's BAC standards, considered Standard Catalog Hardware?
C3. Response:
No. Company designed standards are not available to the public and do not meet the definition. In your process you may conclude that the designer and/or the qualified manufacturer have FAI's for these standards on file. Company designed standards are entered on form 1. (see answer to Question C1).
D. Similar Parts
D1. Question:
Paragraph 5.3 states in part - FAI requirements may also be satisfied by previously approved FAI performed on identical characteristics of similar parts produced by identical means. How similar do the parts have to be?
D1. Response:
If a series of parts are made using the same processes and the parts are identical except for a few characteristics, a complete FAI can be done on one part and for the others, account for the unique characteristics. On form 3 for the "other parts", record the unique characteristics and refer back to the full FAI for the identical characteristics. The key is traceability and that all characteristics are accounted for.
E. Purchase Order Requirements
E1. Question:
Does 9102 allow inspection to Purchase Order requirements?
E1. Response:
Yes. The 9102 definition of drawing requirements indicates that the requirement may be invoked by purchasing document. 9102 Rev A definitions: "DRAWING REQUIREMENTS: Requirements of the drawing (including Parts Lists), specification, or purchasing document to which the article is to be made. These include any notes, specifications, and lower-level drawings invoked."
F. General Questions
F1. Question:
Are 9100 requirements duplicated in 9102?
F1. Response:
9102 requirements are not intended to duplicate 9100 requirements or test 9100 compliance. Each is a stand alone standard.
F2. Question:
What is the relationship between 9102 paragraph 5.3 and 9100 paragraph 7.5.1?
F2. Response:
9102 is one means of meeting 7.5.1 but is not mandated by 9100.
F3. Question:
What does ""First Production Run" mean?
F3. Response:
"First Production Run" means the first parts produced using production routing and tooling. Parts made prior to production, such as prototype parts cannot be used to satisfy the FAI requirement but using the FAI process for pre-production is not prohibited.
F4. Question:
How is a partial FAI documented?
F4. Response:
When performing a partial FAI, use from 1 and only the additional forms required to document the change. Also, reference the original FAI on form 1 on block 14. The original forms must never be altered. You may use attachments to any form if more space is needed.
F5. Question:
Can an FAI be completed when a non-conformance exists"?
F5. Response:
Paragraph 5.4 is clear. The non-conformance must be corrected and the correction verified and documented on new forms at the next production run before considering the FAI "completed".
F6. Question:
How are unique characteristic numbers established?
F6. Response:
Standards provide requirements and cannot provide methods. You may use any technique that provides traceability from the engineering to the FAI report.
__________________
Fighting organizational dysfunction, one post at a time.
Reply With Quote
Thanks to Sidney Vianna for your informative Post and/or Attachment!
Reply

Lower Navigation Bar
Go Back   The Elsmar Cove Forum > National and International Business Standards > Various Other Specifications, Standards, and related Requirements

Bookmarks

Tags
as9102


Visitors Currently Viewing this Thread: 1 (0 Registered Visitors and 1 Unregistered Guests)
 
Thread Tools Search this Thread
Search this Thread:

Advanced Forum Search
Display Modes Rate Thread Content
Rate Thread Content:

Posting Settings
You may not post new threads
You may not post replies
You may not post attachments
You may not edit your posts

BB code is On
Smilies are On
[IMG] code is On
HTML code is Off

Forum Jump

Similar Discussion Threads
Discussion Thread Title Thread Starter Forum Replies Last Post or Poll Vote
AS9120 Revision A has been released Sidney Vianna AS9100 Aerospace Standard and Requirements 10 15th July 2009 05:40 AM
AS9110 Revision A has been released. Sidney Vianna AS9100 Aerospace Standard and Requirements 4 7th July 2009 02:36 PM
AS9102 Part Revision Change Levels LukeT AS9100 Aerospace Standard and Requirements 18 12th October 2005 09:44 AM
FDIS of ISO 14001 - Released April 2004? Karichan ISO 14001 and Environmental Related Standards 20 17th December 2004 10:25 AM
Forums Statistics - Including Monthy Visits - January through June 2004 Marc Old Forum News and Issues Threads Archive 17 2nd August 2004 10:19 AM



The time now is 04:07 AM. All times are GMT -4.
The time zone can be changed in your UserCP --> Options.



   

All Y'All Come Back Now, Y' Hear?

Made With A Mac! FreeBSD OS Powered by Apache!
Using php4 Forums provided and maintained by Marc Smith Database by MySQL

FAIR USE and CORRECTNESS NOTICE: This site contains copyrighted material the use of which has not always been specifically authorized by the copyright owner. We are making such material available in our efforts to advance understanding of environmental, political, human rights, economic, democracy, scientific, and social justice issues, etc. We believe herein constitutes a 'fair use' of any such copyrighted material as provided for in section 107 of the US Copyright Law. In accordance with Title 17 U.S.C. Section 107, the material on this site is distributed without profit to those who have expressed a prior interest in receiving the included information for research and educational purposes. For more information go to: http://www.law.cornell.edu/uscode/17/ If you wish to use copyrighted material from this site for purposes of your own that go beyond 'fair use', you must obtain permission from the copyright owner. In addition, I do not guarantee the correctness of the content. The risk of using content from the Elsmar Cove web site and forums remains with the user/visitor.

Responsibility Statement: Each person is responsible for anything they post in the Elsmar Cove forum. Neither I, Marc Timothy Smith, nor any of the forum Moderators, are responsible for the content of posts people make. Liability for post content resides with the poster as does interpretation and/or acceptance and/or use of advice by the reader.

Complaints: If you have a complaint with a post in a forum discussion thread, including Content in general, fighting, flaming, copyright infringement, defamation and/or 'slander', please use the 'Report This Post Report This Post Button button which appears at the top of every post in every thread.

Site courtesy of:
Marc Timothy Smith - Cayman Business Systems, 8466 Lesourdsville-West Chester Road, West Chester, Ohio 45069-1929 - USA
(513) 341-6272

To contact me, click the Google Voice link below, enter Your Name and Your Phone Number and Google will ring your phone and connect you for free!

The Elsmar Cove Web Site is *CopyFree*
no new posts