Drop TL9000 cert but maintain standards

[johnnybegood]

We are TL9000 Release 3.0 certified. We have just been informed that our headquarter is dropping TL9000 certification but will continue with ISO9001:2000. However the Management wants to maintain the TL9000 standards. I have a concern with the idea as I think we will be over committed against the ISO standards and this may lead to “unnecessary” non-compliances. I am suggesting that the current document to be revised based on ISO standards even though it takes some effort. How can I convinced the Top Management not to maintain the TL9000 standards?

[D.Scott]

Johnny, Maybe I am seeing this wrong but I see perfect sense in maintaining compliance to the TL9000 standard while only certifying to the ISO 9000:2000. Your current customers will expect you to maintain compliance yet you will be audited to ISO 9000. Maybe I don't understand what you mean by "unnecessary non-compliances". IMHO it sounds like a good way to go so long as you are not mandated to be certified to TL9000.

Dave

[johnnybegood]

My understanding is that the auditor can always audit us on ISO9001:2000 requirements as well as the QMS implemented by our company. My concern is that our current document are written such that it meet the TL9000 standards. If we maintain the current document we will be subject to TL9000 audit indirectly. Why should we over commit if our customer only require ISO9001:2000 cert?

[Howard Atkins]

Originally Posted by johnnybegood

My understanding is that the auditor can always audit us on ISO9001:2000 requirements as well as the QMS implemented by our company. My concern is that our current document are written such that it meet the TL9000 standards. If we maintain the current document we will be subject to TL9000 audit indirectly. Why should we over commit if our customer only require ISO9001:2000 cert?

This is a very interesting point.
I think that if the TL subjects are directly refered to in 9001 then he can, if they are not then he can't.

I would be interested to hear other opinions

[e006823]

Yes, the auditor can “always audit us on ISO9001:2000 requirements as well as the QMS implemented” by your company. My question would be does the business benefit from complying with TL9000 requirements? If it does then compliance to your QMS and being audited to your QMS makes good business sense and any non-compliances would not be “unnecessary”.


Bob

[D.Scott]

The scope of the ISO 9001 audit will be the 9001 requirements and of course your own procedures. You can still maintain the TL Standard you now have while not shooting yourself in the foot. The procedure you write may allow you to, for example, meet the intent of TL while not locking you to "the law". For example, if you supply automotive but are only ISO certified you will still be required to do PPAP. The auditor will certainly look to how you do it because it will say so in your procedures. If you state you will follow the AIAG PPAP Reference Manual, you will be audited to that. If your procedure states you will provide PPAPs consisting only of a PSW and a generic statement (exagerated) then that is what the auditor will look at. If the customer accepts whatever it is you send then it is no concern of the auditor. My point, although exagerated here, is that if you feel there is something in TL that you may be weak on then don't say you will do it. There is no reason to even mention TL in your QMS if you are going for ISO only. Write your QMS for ISO 9001. Outline what else you do in your procedures. Leave out what you won't be doing. JMHO.

I too will be interested in the opinions of others.

Dave

[jaimezepeda]

Originally Posted by johnnybegood

We are TL9000 Release 3.0 certified. We have just been informed that our headquarter is dropping TL9000 certification but will continue with ISO9001:2000. However the Management wants to maintain the TL9000 standards. I have a concern with the idea as I think we will be over committed against the ISO standards and this may lead to “unnecessary” non-compliances. I am suggesting that the current document to be revised based on ISO standards even though it takes some effort. How can I convinced the Top Management not to maintain the TL9000 standards?

How interesting! We are currently ISO 9001:2000 registered and are seeking TL 9000 registration.

I say drop all your TL requirements (as many as 80+ for some organizations) and keep only your ISO 9001:2000.

I do not see how you can remain compliant to TL when you won't be able to submit metrics to the QuEST Forum since you will lose your TL cert. Not only that but TL puts many more requirements on you that ISO 9001:2000 does not. For example, TL requires a documented procedure for customer feedback. If you leave it in place it is part of your QMS and you are now obligated to conform to it even though ISO 9001:2000 does not have such a requirement.

In my opinion your organization should retain the TL "best practices" once you drop your TL cert. and reamin compliant only to ISO 9001:2000. You may be causing more problems than you care to deal with.

Just my opinion.

Jaime E. Zepeda

[Govind]

Johnny,
I appreciate both Scott and Jaime's points of view.

My doubt is: How is it possible for your organization to drop TL9000 all of a sudden? Are you not supplying to Telecom customers Tier 1,2 any more? With or without TL9000 (with the exception of metrics submission) you will end up meeting the adders requirements anyway. Because, most TL 9000 requirements come from Telcordia GR series, TR 179, ISO90003: 2004, 12207 and many more.

Telecom customers usually specify most of these requirements in the contracts.
In our case, even without TL9000 (at the moment) we have to comply many standards specified in the contract. When I did a Gap analysis to TL9000 V3 requirements, we are now meeting over 80% of the TL9000 requirements even without a formal TL9000 registration!

My suggestion is talk to your legal, dig up the contracts from your customers and see what are the standards that you need to comply to meet the contractual conditions.
You will be surprised to see that keeping TL9000 is less painful than complying multiple standards in bits and pieces.

Govind.