Training our Internal Auditors - How can I tell what I 'may be' missing?

[Ingeniero1]

I am just about done with training our Internal Auditors and when all done, we will have conducted three limited, ‘practice’ audits in which we all participated. After that, we will do our first complete Internal Audit.

I have divided the departments and operations among the four auditors, and each will do a complete audit of his/her areas. We will be auditing for the following:

A. How well does what we actually do match what the procedures we have just written say we do?
(As part of this, we will also be able to identify if a procedure, and not the activity per se, is at fault and the write-up is to be corrected.)

B. Are the ISO 9001:2000 elements applicable to any specific area properly met or satisfied?
(Here, we will also be able to identify if there are any elements of the Standard that we have not addressed at all.)

My concern is that after finishing the procedures, which I have written based on my interviews with managers, supervisors, and operators, I may have missed critical details. For example, in our Corrective Action procedure, I had forgotten to include a timing requirement for when a corrective action is to be completed. Another example is the lack of listing of some of the forms that we use within the applicable procedures.

I am presently seeking approval to have an independent consultant do a gap audit after our first internal audit. After that gap audit, I plan to do another internal audit, although perhaps not complete, and then we will be ready for the Registrar.

How else can I find out if I have dotted all the i’s and crossed all the t’s?

Thanks!

Alex

[The Taz!]

Originally Posted by Ingeniero1

How else can I find out if I have dotted all the i’s and crossed all the t’s?
Thanks! Alex

Alex,

Don't look for perfection from the get-go. At some point ya gotta run with what you have, and use subsequent audits to reveal nonconformances and gaps. You have to show some thing from your audits.

I have a scheme that seems to work well for me (And my Swedish brother Claes),

1) group the nonconformances found by TS or ISO Section (4,5,6,7,8) and Paretoize the data. That will give you and indication of what major areas need shoring up.

2) Group the same data by TS or ISO sub-section and paretoize that. That will give you and indication of what processes need shoring up or procedure updates.

3) Group the individual noncon's by individual requirement. That will give you the gaps.

Hope this is of help. I programmed an Access database to do the grunt work. I even issue and track the CAR's through it.

[RCBeyette]

I think you're off to a great start, Alex. Audits will be the strongest factor in determining if any areas have been missed...or not fully implemented. Keep that as an option to look for, as well...don't just look for "is it done or not"...look to see how well it has be implemented. Some organizations with shiftwork, focus on a crew or two and forget the others.

Something else to keep in mind is to perhaps get the feedback of the employees. They're the biggest users of the system...do they understand the concepts of it, do they apply it, do they believe in it?

[little__cee]

There are also great attachments if you click the

The March - April 2004 Post Attachments Summary List

link on the top of this page and search for the word "internal" or "audit" -- many helpful tips and questions to ask.


I loved the use of the word paretoize by the way!

[The Taz!]

Originally Posted by little__cee

I loved the use of the word paretoize by the way!

You sweet talker you!

[Tom W]

Originally Posted by The Taz!

Alex,

Don't look for perfection from the get-go. At some point ya gotta run with what you have, and use subsequent audits to reveal nonconformances and gaps. You have to show some thing from your audits.

Well your on fire today Taz! This is a great point. If you try to be perfect before you implement and conduct audits you will already be set up to fail. The program will develop as you audit. For example - we are on revision G of our procedure over 5 years. The program has developed into a very comprehensive one that has help to foster a positive continuous cycle of improvements.

Things change and you want to change with them. The best way to get a good solid system for auditing is to audit. You can have the best procedure in the world but if the auditors are not experienced and confident in their abilities your system will not hold up. Experience for the auditors will make them better auditors - will make your audit system better. JMHO.

[Claes Gefvenberg]

Originally Posted by The Taz!

Don't look for perfection from the get-go. At some point ya gotta run with what you have, and use subsequent audits to reveal nonconformances and gaps.

Right. I see audits mainly as a tool for collecting improvement potential.

/Claes

[M Greenaway]

It seems to me that your internal audit program is heavily focussed on compliance to documented procedures, and appraising whether or not your documented procedures detail exactly everything you do to the nth degree.

Perhaps a more fundemental and important question is 'are our processes effective in meeting our quality objectives ?'