Seeking Input Regarding Certification Refresher Courses

[Govind]

We have been conducting CQMgr, CSQE, and CQIA refresher courses for the last 2 years. We are planning to expand more courses for our section. I understand many of our Elsmar members are also ASQ Members. I need some input regarding Certification refresher courses based on your experience.

1. How much your section charges for conducting ASQ certification refresher courses?
2. What is the typical duration of the course?
Example: 1 day/week, 8 weeks or 4 Weekends? Which has been successful?
3. What is that attendees value most in refresher courses?
4. What is your (course) exam success rate?
5. Any lessons learned, best practice want to share?

Thanks,
Govind.

[Bill Pflanz]

Govind,

Here are some answers to your questions. I am acting co-education chair for Section 801.

1. How much your section charges for conducting ASQ certification refresher courses? $350 per student

2. What is the typical duration of the course?
Example: 1 day/week, 8 weeks or 4 Weekends? Which has been successful?

4 hour classes, 1 day/week for 10 weeks. Success is a relative term. Some attendees find it hard to make the weekly commitment. The instructors feel that studying the material over a 10 week period beginning about the 12th week before the exam allows the student to refresh themselves in a time period that is sufficient without being burdensome. They usually recommend a total time of 70-80 hours of preparation time for the test to ensure reasonable success at passing.

3. What is that attendees value most in refresher courses?

Forcing a commitment to reviewing the body of knowledge and also learning the format of the test. There is a technique to taking multiple choice test that the attendee may not have seen before or it has been since school. Types of questions and time management need to be learned. Practicing exam questions is valuable. A well taught course will include hundreds of practice questions for them.

4. What is your (course) exam success rate?
Varies by commitment of students more than course. One instructor that I know well tracks his students and has a 80% success rate. From what I have learned, the ASQ success rate is about 50% for all certifications.

5. Any lessons learned, best practice want to share?

Market the courses on a regular basis to the members. Do not run them to generate funds for the section but as a service to the members. Most of the income should go to the instructors with a little set aside for marketing costs. Be honest with the attendees about the purpose of the course and the need for their commitment. The course is a refresher not a way to learn the subject from nothing.

Bill Pflanz

[Govind]

Bill,
Accept my thanks for a very detailed reply. Thanks for taking the time to reply item by item.
Here is how we do:
1. How much your section charges for conducting ASQ certification refresher courses?
We charge about CDN$650 (USD 475). Quality Council of Indiana material -Primer and a Solution text included.
You mentioned:” Do not run them to generate funds for the section but as a service to the members."
This is one point I respectfully disagree. With the new living community model, the rebates that will be received from section membership will drastically reduce and major revenue for the section has to come from either refresher courses or Newsletter Advt.
This concern is an offline topic by many section members during the AQC.I agree with your intent in principle. Not sure if practical.

2. What is the typical duration of the course?
Example: 1 day/week, 8 weeks or 4 Weekends? Which has been successful?
We conduct 3 hour session, 8 weeks start 10 weeks in advance. Leave last 2 weeks for self-study. 8th sessions is a Simulated exam.
We have not considered weekends. Some sections in the USA do.
Exams like SSBB and CRE will require more than 80 hours. I studied over 250 hours for these certifications.

3. What is that attendees value most in refresher courses?
Your reply, ditto+ We conduct Student satisfaction feedback after every batch. We consider multiple criteria with different weightage. Top one is " knowledge of the Session lecturer" i.e Ability to answer questions during the session is considered high value.Ability to workout problems in the session is also considered high.


4. What is your (course) exam success rate?
Our refresher course Success rate is different for various certifications. CQIA is 100%. CSQE is 60~70%. CQMgr, I understand is 70~80%.As you mentioned, this is difficult to fully attribute to course performance. If the student did not follow through with self-study during and post the session, probability of success is reduced. I find the last 2 weeks self study before exam as very critical especially when problems are involved.

5. Any lessons learned, best practice want to share?
Lessons Learned:
Some 10~15% of Quality Council of Indiana questions are very arguable (may be wrong). Students taking exam for the first time can get very upset and lose confidence looking at these questions. So we should let them know the actual ASQ questions are peer reviewed multiple times and are different from those we see in QCI primers and CDs.
Best Practice:
Using CQIA refresher course, student feedback, I tried a QFD approach and have identified CTQs for the course. Yet to implement in the redesign of the course for the next batch.

Once again, Thanks Bill for sharing your experience. Any other members?

Govind.

[Rob Nix]

Sorry for the delay (also sorry I missed you at the AQC in Toronto - although I understand you met Graeme).

In the past I have taught part of the CQE refresher here in the Saginaw Valley section 1004 (Michigan), and have been asked to help out again.

1. $345 for members ($395 for non-members).
2. 14 weeks, 3 hour sessions for one evening each week.
3. Much the same as Bill's reply.
4. I don't have the stats, but anecdotally (based on conversations with quality practitioners around here) I'd say 60-70%.
5. Also, like Bill's comments, past QCI questions are, um, questionable. Some of the questions/answers are misleading and some outdated. Also, the emphasis today is different than years ago (e.g. less on acceptance sampling, more on lean techniques).

Anyway, I hope this helps you.

[Bill Pflanz]

The cost of courses that I quoted did not include purchased training materials which would increase the cost to about the same as Govind described. One instructor developed his own training material and practice questions and provides it with the course.

QCI may have some "very arguable (may be wrong)" questions but there are probably questions on the exam that fit the same description. The instructor that I had who developed his own questions freely admitted that two or more answers could be correct but there was only one that was the best. He would walk us through understanding the question and challenged his students to do the same on the exam since not all questions on the exam have an obvious answer.

Rob brought up a very important issue about having the course and questions stay current. If an ASQ member proctors an exam they must agree to not teach a course for 5 (I think) years. The instructor would need to stay current on the body of knowledge as it changes to keep the course current and hope they can guess the questions. There is no rule against someone taking the test every 3 years and someone from QCI may do that.

By the way, I only took the QCI manual, Juran's handbook and a statistics book in the CSSBB exam. Since I have 2 other certifications, my previous instructor said I probably did not need a refresher course since I knew what to expect. I would recommend a refresher course for all first time certifications and take a well indexed manual like QCI's with very little other books. Statistically I have done well since I passed all 3 on the first try.

To recover the lost funds from the new Living Community Model, I recommended that we charge non-section members an additional $60 for the course and throw in a free upgrade to a full ASQ membership. I am not sure all the section exec board understood the significance of my recommendation.

Bill Pflanz

[Al Dyer]

While I was Treasurer of Bluewater section of ASQC (1987) I also took the classes for CQT. The classes were helpful and included the book and I passed. The classes were for about 9 weeks at 3 hours per class. Some were boring and some helped me pass the ASQC test.

At the time there was a discussion whether we could use a calculator and we had to tear the answer pages out of the text we were issued. In the end we could not use the "missing" pages and we had to turn in our calculators to determine if they were capable of doing equations. If so they were taken.

Just a memory.................................

Al...

[Bill Pflanz]

Originally Posted by Bill Pflanz

To recover the lost funds from the new Living Community Model, I recommended that we charge non-section members an additional $60 for the course and throw in a free upgrade to a full ASQ membership. I am not sure all the section exec board understood the significance of my recommendation.

The incoming section chair must have agreed with my flippant recommendation. I received an email sent to the exec board proposing a $50 additional charge for non-section members to take certification refresher courses. The cost will now be $375 for section members and $425 for non-section members.

We are also charging about 15% more for dinner meetings and spring conferences for non-members. The intent is to give some incentive to be a full member with section membership.

Bill Pflanz

[Govind]

Thanks to Rob Nix and Al for sharing their experience.
Bill,
We had the price structure difference even before living community model. We set CDN $100 higher to Non members. Obviously every student will apply for an ASQ membership and get the member price for the course.

This will probably help recruit member for the first year. However, there is no guarantee that the member will stay in "Regular" there after. They may lower to "associate" (means less rebate to section) or may not renew (No rebate) next year after passing the certification.

All section can do is to offer products and services to retain members. But the decision to stay is based on member's perception. Many members have not even browsed the ASQ member’s web page once to know what is inside!

ASQ has to better job in communicating to the members about benefits of remaining in the "regular" membership (US$89). Let us wait and see how this new model influences the section revenue. It will take couple of years to fully understand the impact.

If we can set an affordable cost for the courses, refresher course is one avenue we can count on.
Govind.