The Elsmar Cove Forum and Site Map The Elsmar Cove Wiki More Free Files The Elsmar Cove Forums Discussion Thread Index Post Attachments Listing Failure Modes Services and Solutions to Problems Elsmar cove Forums Main Page Elsmar Cove Home Page

Go Back   The Elsmar Cove Forum > Common Quality Assurance Processes and Tools > Inspection and Test, Sampling and Related Topics


The Elsmar Cove Forum SideBar!
Monitor the Forum
Monitor New Forum Posts
New Threads Feeds
RSS FeedRSS Feed
Sponsor Link










$ Contributor Forum Access
Courtesy Quick Links

Links that Elsmar Cove visitors will find useful in your quest for knowledge:


Howard's International Quality Services

Atul's Symphony Technologies

Dave Scott's Scott Quality Solutions

Praxiom Research Group


NIST's Engineering Statistics Handbook

IRCA - International Register of Certified Auditors

SAE - Society of Automotive Engineers

Quality Digest Portal

IEST - Institute of Environmental Sciences and Technology

ASQ - American Society for Quality


All the Important Standards and Related Web Sites in the World
Reply
 
Thread Tools Search this Thread Rate Thread Content Display Modes
  #1  
Old 8th June 2004, 11:33 AM
e006823 e006823 is offline
Involved in Discussions

Registration Date: Nov 2003
Location: East Coast
 
Posts: 149
Thanks Given to Others: 2
Thanked 26 Times in 20 Posts
Karma Power: 33
Karma: 324
e006823 is appreciated, and has over 300 Karma points.e006823 is appreciated, and has over 300 Karma points.e006823 is appreciated, and has over 300 Karma points.e006823 is appreciated, and has over 300 Karma points.
Question What is the purpose of the AIAG's PPAP process? Elimination of customer inspection?

In an effort to “broaden my horizons” I’ve been reading the AIAG PPAP document. Other then demonstrating process capability on a reasonable sample what is the purpose of this process (keep in mind I’m not in the automotive industry)? Is achieving approval ever justification for elimination of any inspection of this part at the customers’ site (ship to stock)?

Thanks,
Bob
Reply With Quote

Sponsored Links
  #2  
Old 8th June 2004, 11:44 AM
The Taz!'s Avatar
The Taz! The Taz! is offline
Courtesy Access

Registration Date: Nov 2003
Location: Connecticut
Age: 59
 
Posts: 493
Thanks Given to Others: 1
Thanked 4 Times in 3 Posts
Karma Power: 46
Karma: 619
The Taz! is appreciated, and has over 500 Karma points.The Taz! is appreciated, and has over 500 Karma points.The Taz! is appreciated, and has over 500 Karma points.The Taz! is appreciated, and has over 500 Karma points.The Taz! is appreciated, and has over 500 Karma points.The Taz! is appreciated, and has over 500 Karma points.
Send a message via AIM to The Taz! Send a message via Yahoo to The Taz!
Default

There is much more than attaining capability on a reasonable sample there. . . and it is up to the customer what they inspect and when. . . PPAP has no bearing on that. It is determined by what happens when the parts are used.
__________________
If something is over engineered. . . it will probably be under manufactured! (Jim Eustace 1993)
Reply With Quote
Sponsored Links

  #3  
Old 8th June 2004, 11:51 AM
Al Dyer's Avatar
Al Dyer Al Dyer is offline
Mod...

Registration Date: Mar 2003
Location: Oregon, MI
Age: 51
 
Posts: 577
Thanks Given to Others: 4
Thanked 10 Times in 10 Posts
Karma Power: 46
Karma: 398
Al Dyer is appreciated, and has over 300 Karma points.Al Dyer is appreciated, and has over 300 Karma points.Al Dyer is appreciated, and has over 300 Karma points.Al Dyer is appreciated, and has over 300 Karma points.
Send a message via AIM to Al Dyer
Default

Capability does not equal compatibility???

Al...
__________________
"Para ... Bellum"
Reply With Quote
  #4  
Old 8th June 2004, 12:20 PM
howste's Avatar
howste howste is offline
Thaumaturge

Registration Date: May 2003
Location: Utah
 
Posts: 2,417
Thanks Given to Others: 377
Thanked 838 Times in 460 Posts
Karma Power: 206
Karma: 6556
howste is appreciated, and has over 1700 Karma points.howste is appreciated, and has over 1700 Karma points.
howste is appreciated, and has over 1700 Karma points.howste is appreciated, and has over 1700 Karma points.howste is appreciated, and has over 1700 Karma points.howste is appreciated, and has over 1700 Karma points.howste is appreciated, and has over 1700 Karma points.howste is appreciated, and has over 1700 Karma points.
Default

Quote:
Originally Posted by e006823

...Is achieving approval ever justification for elimination of any inspection of this part at the customers’ site (ship to stock)?
Since all parts are required to have PPAP approval before being used (unless approved by the customer, but we won't go there right now...), that would allow all parts to be ship-to-stock. In actual practice the customer will do whatever they want to do anyway, regardless of PPAP approval. If the customer is following TS 16949, this is what they will do:
Quote:
The organization shall have a process to assure the quality of purchased product (see 7.4.3) utilizing one or more of the following methods:
- receipt of, and evaluation of, statistical data by the organization;
- receiving inspection and/or testing such as sampling based on performance;
- second- or third-party assessments or audits of supplier sites, when coupled with records of acceptable delivered product quality;
- part evaluation by a designated laboratory;
- another method agreed with the customer.
Reply With Quote
  #5  
Old 9th June 2004, 01:37 AM
Howard Atkins's Avatar
Howard Atkins Howard Atkins is offline
Forum Administrator

Registration Date: Jul 1997
Location: Revivim, Israel
 
Posts: 2,412
Thanks Given to Others: 100
Thanked 448 Times in 253 Posts
Blog Entries: 8
Karma Power: 195
Karma: 4817
Howard Atkins is appreciated, and has over 1700 Karma points.
Howard Atkins is appreciated, and has over 1700 Karma points.Howard Atkins is appreciated, and has over 1700 Karma points.Howard Atkins is appreciated, and has over 1700 Karma points.Howard Atkins is appreciated, and has over 1700 Karma points.Howard Atkins is appreciated, and has over 1700 Karma points.Howard Atkins is appreciated, and has over 1700 Karma points.Howard Atkins is appreciated, and has over 1700 Karma points.Howard Atkins is appreciated, and has over 1700 Karma points.Howard Atkins is appreciated, and has over 1700 Karma points.Howard Atkins is appreciated, and has over 1700 Karma points.Howard Atkins is appreciated, and has over 1700 Karma points.Howard Atkins is appreciated, and has over 1700 Karma points.
Send a message via Skype™ to Howard Atkins
Default

Quote:
Originally Posted by e006823

Other then demonstrating process capability on a reasonable sample what is the purpose of this process (keep in mind I’m not in the automotive industry)?
Thanks,
Bob
In my view this is in fact a minor side of the coin.
The PPAP is supposed to be the culmination of the quality planning stage (APQP) and shows the validation of the design of the production process.
Capability in terms of characteristics is les important that robustness of process and thus the customer wants to see your thinking as to how the controls were developed.
__________________
You can’t fake quality any more than you can fake a good meal.
* William S. Burroughs
Reply With Quote
Reply

Lower Navigation Bar
Go Back   The Elsmar Cove Forum > Common Quality Assurance Processes and Tools > Inspection and Test, Sampling and Related Topics

Bookmarks


Visitors Currently Viewing this Thread: 1 (0 Registered Visitors and 1 Unregistered Guests)
 
Thread Tools Search this Thread
Search this Thread:

Advanced Forum Search
Display Modes Rate Thread Content
Rate Thread Content:

Posting Settings
You may not post new threads
You may not post replies
You may not post attachments
You may not edit your posts

BB code is On
Smilies are On
[IMG] code is On
HTML code is Off

Forum Jump

Similar Discussion Threads
Discussion Thread Title Thread Starter Forum Replies Last Post or Poll Vote
Is PPAP the same process as a ISIR (Initial Sample inspection report)? bunda APQP and PPAP 13 12th August 2009 04:01 AM
PPAP Purpose And Benefits - What is the purpose of PPAP Submission? kedarg6500 APQP and PPAP 26 29th August 2008 02:34 PM
APQP Process Review and the Purpose of PPAP IEGeek APQP and PPAP 13 12th October 2006 04:10 PM
AIAG's PPAP Manual - New version due soon sbickley APQP and PPAP 3 14th May 2004 05:08 AM
PPAP required by Customer not the same as the AIAG's PPAP Manual Requirements cjkurtz APQP and PPAP 2 20th September 2000 05:52 AM



The time now is 12:39 PM. All times are GMT -4.
The time zone can be changed in your UserCP --> Options.



   

All Y'All Come Back Now, Y' Hear?

Made With A Mac! FreeBSD OS Powered by Apache!
Using php4 Forums provided and maintained by Marc Smith Database by MySQL

FAIR USE and CORRECTNESS NOTICE: This site contains copyrighted material the use of which has not always been specifically authorized by the copyright owner. We are making such material available in our efforts to advance understanding of environmental, political, human rights, economic, democracy, scientific, and social justice issues, etc. We believe herein constitutes a 'fair use' of any such copyrighted material as provided for in section 107 of the US Copyright Law. In accordance with Title 17 U.S.C. Section 107, the material on this site is distributed without profit to those who have expressed a prior interest in receiving the included information for research and educational purposes. For more information go to: http://www.law.cornell.edu/uscode/17/ If you wish to use copyrighted material from this site for purposes of your own that go beyond 'fair use', you must obtain permission from the copyright owner. In addition, I do not guarantee the correctness of the content. The risk of using content from the Elsmar Cove web site and forums remains with the user/visitor.

Responsibility Statement: Each person is responsible for anything they post in the Elsmar Cove forum. Neither I, Marc Timothy Smith, nor any of the forum Moderators, are responsible for the content of posts people make. Liability for post content resides with the poster as does interpretation and/or acceptance and/or use of advice by the reader.

Complaints: If you have a complaint with a post in a forum discussion thread, including Content in general, fighting, flaming, copyright infringement, defamation and/or 'slander', please use the 'Report This Post Report This Post Button button which appears at the top of every post in every thread.

Site courtesy of:
Marc Timothy Smith - Cayman Business Systems, 8466 Lesourdsville-West Chester Road, West Chester, Ohio 45069-1929 - USA
(513) 341-6272

To contact me, click the Google Voice link below, enter Your Name and Your Phone Number and Google will ring your phone and connect you for free!

The Elsmar Cove Web Site is *CopyFree*
no new posts