The Elsmar Cove Forum and Site Map The Elsmar Cove Wiki More Free Files The Elsmar Cove Forums Discussion Thread Index Post Attachments Listing Failure Modes Services and Solutions to Problems Elsmar cove Forums Main Page Elsmar Cove Home Page

Go Back   The Elsmar Cove Forum > Common Quality Assurance Processes and Tools > Six Sigma


The Elsmar Cove Forum SideBar!
Monitor the Forum
Monitor New Forum Posts
New Threads Feeds
RSS FeedRSS Feed
Sponsor Link










$ Contributor Forum Access
Courtesy Quick Links

Links that Elsmar Cove visitors will find useful in your quest for knowledge:


Howard's International Quality Services

Atul's Symphony Technologies

Dave Scott's Scott Quality Solutions

Praxiom Research Group


NIST's Engineering Statistics Handbook

IRCA - International Register of Certified Auditors

SAE - Society of Automotive Engineers

Quality Digest Portal

IEST - Institute of Environmental Sciences and Technology

ASQ - American Society for Quality


All the Important Standards and Related Web Sites in the World
Reply
 
Thread Tools Search this Thread Rating: Thread Rating: 2 votes, 5.00 average. Display Modes
  #1  
Old 15th June 2004, 07:10 PM
J Oliphant's Avatar
J Oliphant J Oliphant is offline
Inactive Registered Visitor

Registration Date: Jun 2004
Location: Butler, PA USA
Age: 37
 
Posts: 67
Thanks Given to Others: 0
Thanked 1 Time in 1 Post
Karma Power: 27
Karma: 165
J Oliphant is appreciated, and has over 100 Karma points.J Oliphant is appreciated, and has over 100 Karma points.
Hehehe... Can anyone define what Six Sigma really is?

Our company is still very much into the mode of building enthusiasm for six sigma, and sometimes it leads to a lot of confusion on just what it is.

for example,
A coworker (he's quite involved with six sigma) and I were reviewing some process instructions, and we were thinking about some changes that may save time/and money in them. When we were done I joked that if we would have submitted them to six sigma we could have spent alot more time and resources finding a few obvious changes that reduced the process change. He then said with genuine seriousness that we had applied six sigma. and proved how it cost efficient it really is.

But that confusing, we had done no DOE, no statistical study, or FMEA. we didn't have a charter, or a champion. How could this be six sigma?
Six sigma, he said was about using the best tools to economically optimize a process.

To my curiousity he is always promoting the idea, that I don't need six sigma training. We always have been doing six sigma and that its more of an administrative way to calculate cost impovements and that the belts are more about the managerial responseability to coordinate significant cost savings.

Indeed, quoted in our own newletter is a story of a lady who used six sigma to plan her wedding. What she means as you understand when you read further is that she planned for things that might go wrong or cost a lot of wasted money. So now six sigma becomes the buzzword describing all brainstorming, analysis and statistics??

Even the very title seems a little arbitrary. Hopefully in a few days I will have the joy of explaning what a CQE is to my boss. But my 6 sigma friend predicts it will mean very little. 'You are not a 6 sigma belt and you merely showed you have learned a few more statistical tools then others.'
So I do six sigma everytime I analyze something for cost savings but fail to truly show mastery of the topic, even as I become a CQE.

If all projects that use six sigma techniques aren't 'Six sigma projects', Are all projects done by a black belt then 'Six sigma projects' even if they don't use the tools successfully (I saw this as well).

The overall impression becomes that six sigma is a stamp that management gives you when it feels you can manage projects. And its a buzz-word that they want everybody to use for improving things (even if they didn't do very much).
Reply With Quote
Thanks to J Oliphant for your informative Post and/or Attachment!

Sponsored Links
  #2  
Old 15th June 2004, 11:43 PM
J Oliphant's Avatar
J Oliphant J Oliphant is offline
Inactive Registered Visitor

Registration Date: Jun 2004
Location: Butler, PA USA
Age: 37
 
Posts: 67
Thanks Given to Others: 0
Thanked 1 Time in 1 Post
Karma Power: 27
Karma: 165
J Oliphant is appreciated, and has over 100 Karma points.J Oliphant is appreciated, and has over 100 Karma points.
Default more specifically

ok. I figured there has been some lively discussion about the value of six sigma.

But what is new to me, is my friends assertion that a simple brainstorming/ problem-solving session is six sigma. those of you that think six sigma all is rubbish, probably would agree with him.

But to the six sigma loyals, Do you agree? Does six sigma all of the deserve the recognition of all process improvement? Is there a valid reason to promote this idea that six sigma is any problemsolving that leads to cost savings? What does six sigma uniquely offer (Advanced DOE for hard problem, management support, a management system for cost saving problems...)?

What makes a project A Six Sigma project? A charter, A black belt performing it, A team, A few documents concluding what could very well be obvious. Does (should) black belts neccesarily need to use tools or teams to truly complete a six sigma project? Or if my friend (instead of I) had done the same review of process changes that had lead to some savings, should the $$$ saved and recognition been credited to 'six sigma'?

Do you think people don't sometimes use the unique tools that is 'six sigma' because they are complex or difficult to explain? Understandably this could yet be a subjective question, but I am interested to know if its intentional to make six sigma seem simple, all inconclusive, and maybe a little non-value added. I wonder too what the six sigma champions are hoping for -employers praising six sigma's contributions to birthdays and retirements? Everybody doing 'six sigma' (read problem-solving/cost savings) in their job and a few belts managing them with martial skill? Just the attention and support of top management so that finally all the problems that wouldn't go away when TQM or ISO 9000 was the quality craze.

It all makes me wonder, whether SSBB would be truly added value as next training after the CQE (as some has implied on another thread).
Reply With Quote
Sponsored Links

  #3  
Old 15th June 2004, 11:51 PM
Govind's Avatar
Govind Govind is offline
Super Moderator

Registration Date: Apr 2004
Location: Fremont, California
 
Posts: 546
Thanks Given to Others: 13
Thanked 36 Times in 35 Posts
Karma Power: 50
Govind has disabled his/her Karma.
Default

J.Oliphant,
If you get a chance, read a book called " The power of Six sigma" by Subir Chowdhury. This is will answer most of your question in very basic terms. No lengthy formula, No huge table, No complex diagrams or anything. A story type narration of power of Six sigma. Slightly over 100 pages. You could just finish in a short air travel.
Answers to all your questions are already in various postings of this forum. But I would also strongly recommend reading this inexpensive book to get answer all your questions.
Regards,
Govind.
Reply With Quote
  #4  
Old 16th June 2004, 10:23 AM
KMAAA KMAAA is offline
Inactive Registered Visitor

Registration Date: Nov 2003
Location: Wisconsin
 
Posts: 35
Thanks Given to Others: 0
Thanked 0 Times in 0 Posts
Karma Power: 29
Karma: 220
KMAAA is appreciated, and has over 200 Karma points.KMAAA is appreciated, and has over 200 Karma points.KMAAA is appreciated, and has over 200 Karma points.
Default

J Oli,

You do have quite a few questions, many of them very good. Rather than look to the board here to enlighten you perhaps you need to do some homework & self study on the topic. Quick sound-bite discussions pale in comparison to the physical act of study & reflection. One thing you can conclude from previous discussions is that you'll get primarily a one-sided response...and that's healthy as long as there is additional discussion to balance them out. There actually is another side, but they prefer to respond privately rather than voice their thoughts in threads.

Some of the nuts & bolts can be reviewed at http://www.isixsigma.com/me/
Reply With Quote
  #5  
Old 16th June 2004, 03:35 PM
Bill Pflanz's Avatar
Bill Pflanz Bill Pflanz is offline
Quality Champion

Registration Date: Mar 2004
Location: Westerville Ohio
 
Posts: 580
Thanks Given to Others: 7
Thanked 65 Times in 45 Posts
Karma Power: 93
Karma: 2943
Bill Pflanz is appreciated, and has over 1700 Karma points.Bill Pflanz is appreciated, and has over 1700 Karma points.Bill Pflanz is appreciated, and has over 1700 Karma points.Bill Pflanz is appreciated, and has over 1700 Karma points.Bill Pflanz is appreciated, and has over 1700 Karma points.Bill Pflanz is appreciated, and has over 1700 Karma points.Bill Pflanz is appreciated, and has over 1700 Karma points.Bill Pflanz is appreciated, and has over 1700 Karma points.Bill Pflanz is appreciated, and has over 1700 Karma points.Bill Pflanz is appreciated, and has over 1700 Karma points.Bill Pflanz is appreciated, and has over 1700 Karma points.Bill Pflanz is appreciated, and has over 1700 Karma points.Bill Pflanz is appreciated, and has over 1700 Karma points.Bill Pflanz is appreciated, and has over 1700 Karma points.Bill Pflanz is appreciated, and has over 1700 Karma points.
Default

Quote:
Originally Posted by Govind

J.Oliphant,
If you get a chance, read a book called " The power of Six sigma" by Subir Chowdhury. This is will answer most of your question in very basic terms. No lengthy formula, No huge table, No complex diagrams or anything. A story type narration of power of Six sigma. Slightly over 100 pages. You could just finish in a short air travel.
Answers to all your questions are already in various postings of this forum. But I would also strongly recommend reading this inexpensive book to get answer all your questions.
Regards,
Govind.
Govind,

I happen to be reading Chowdhury's sequel book called Design for Six Sigma. It is entertaining but not necessarily useful if you are trying to learn implementation. This book uses the same major characters from his first book but has the central character in a new business where coffee is $4, all the help has their dream job, and all the customers are thrilled to spend the money because of Six Sigma.

Terms like brainstorming, FMEA, problem solving etc. are thrown in occasionally with no explanation of what they are or how to use them. I don't mean to be critical, I just wanted to note that Chowdhury's books are not meant to be used as a how-to manual. Mr. Oliphant seems to be looking for more detail rather than being sold on the concept.

I also spent a little time on the iSixSigma Forum. My random sample of the threads makes me realize how civilized the participants are in the Cove. In that forum you better have a thick skin.

Bill Pflanz
Reply With Quote
  #6  
Old 16th June 2004, 04:08 PM
Steve Prevette's Avatar
Steve Prevette Steve Prevette is offline
Deming Disciple

Registration Date: Feb 2004
Location: Aiken, SC
 
Posts: 1,471
Thanks Given to Others: 60
Thanked 402 Times in 240 Posts
Karma Power: 190
Karma: 6867
Steve Prevette is appreciated, and has over 1700 Karma points.Steve Prevette is appreciated, and has over 1700 Karma points.
Steve Prevette is appreciated, and has over 1700 Karma points.Steve Prevette is appreciated, and has over 1700 Karma points.Steve Prevette is appreciated, and has over 1700 Karma points.Steve Prevette is appreciated, and has over 1700 Karma points.Steve Prevette is appreciated, and has over 1700 Karma points.Steve Prevette is appreciated, and has over 1700 Karma points.Steve Prevette is appreciated, and has over 1700 Karma points.
Default

I don't want to invoke the displeasure of KMAAA, so I will stick to a literal response to "what is six sigma".

In the beginning . . . Motorola was making electronic components and was having failures. The question was - how much work was needed on improvement? When are you "good enough". The theory was, if you keep improving the process until the centerline of the data is six standard deviations away from the specifications for the part, then this is the optimal place to be. Basically a Cpk of 2. That's it.
__________________
Steve Prevette
"A Passionate Statistician", ASQ CQE, Fluor Government Group
The opinion stated above does not necessarily reflect that of my employer.
Reply With Quote
Thanks to Steve Prevette for your informative Post and/or Attachment!
  #7  
Old 16th June 2004, 04:14 PM
Wes Bucey's Avatar
Wes Bucey Wes Bucey is offline
Quality Manager

Registration Date: Sep 2003
Location: Illinois
 
Posts: 7,534
Thanks Given to Others: 182
Thanked 1,127 Times in 762 Posts
Karma Power: 397
Karma: 11090
Wes Bucey is appreciated, and has over 1700 Karma points.Wes Bucey is appreciated, and has over 1700 Karma points.Wes Bucey is appreciated, and has over 1700 Karma points.
Wes Bucey is appreciated, and has over 1700 Karma points.Wes Bucey is appreciated, and has over 1700 Karma points.Wes Bucey is appreciated, and has over 1700 Karma points.Wes Bucey is appreciated, and has over 1700 Karma points.Wes Bucey is appreciated, and has over 1700 Karma points.Wes Bucey is appreciated, and has over 1700 Karma points.Wes Bucey is appreciated, and has over 1700 Karma points.Wes Bucey is appreciated, and has over 1700 Karma points.Wes Bucey is appreciated, and has over 1700 Karma points.Wes Bucey is appreciated, and has over 1700 Karma points.Wes Bucey is appreciated, and has over 1700 Karma points.Wes Bucey is appreciated, and has over 1700 Karma points.
Default

Quote:
Originally Posted by Bill Pflanz

Govind,

I happen to be reading Chowdhury's sequel book called Design for Six Sigma. It is entertaining but not necessarily useful if you are trying to learn implementation. This book uses the same major characters from his first book but has the central character in a new business where coffee is $4, all the help has their dream job, and all the customers are thrilled to spend the money because of Six Sigma.

Terms like brainstorming, FMEA, problem solving etc. are thrown in occasionally with no explanation of what they are or how to use them. I don't mean to be critical, I just wanted to note that Chowdhury's books are not meant to be used as a how-to manual. Mr. Oliphant seems to be looking for more detail rather than being sold on the concept.

I also spent a little time on the iSixSigma Forum. My random sample of the threads makes me realize how civilized the participants are in the Cove. In that forum you better have a thick skin.

Bill Pflanz
Just to show I'm not a complete churl - here's an interesting article about a trend toward divorcing BIG 6S (the kind Steve Prevette and I decry) from "common sense" 6S (which we both might willingly embrace) - The quote is just an excerpt; the complete article can be found at Inside Quality:
Quote:
From Inside Quality:“The traditional Six Sigma Black Belt implementation approach can require millions of dollars in investment, dedication of a firm's best full-time resources and lengthy training. This top-down approach is a major obstacle for small and mid-sized companies, but it doesn't need to be. There is an alternative Six Sigma deployment model called the "Six Steps to Lean Six Sigma." Originally pioneered by Motorola, it allows small and mid-sized organizations to implement the methodology without the significant resource commitment and overhead structure of the Black Belt approach."
__________________
"Few minds wear out; more rust out"
Inscribed over the entrance of Louis Pasteur School, Chicago
Christian Nestell Bovee (1820-1904) in Thoughts, Feelings and Fancies, 1857
Reply With Quote
  #8  
Old 16th June 2004, 05:13 PM
Bill Pflanz's Avatar
Bill Pflanz Bill Pflanz is offline
Quality Champion

Registration Date: Mar 2004
Location: Westerville Ohio
 
Posts: 580
Thanks Given to Others: 7
Thanked 65 Times in 45 Posts
Karma Power: 93
Karma: 2943
Bill Pflanz is appreciated, and has over 1700 Karma points.Bill Pflanz is appreciated, and has over 1700 Karma points.Bill Pflanz is appreciated, and has over 1700 Karma points.Bill Pflanz is appreciated, and has over 1700 Karma points.Bill Pflanz is appreciated, and has over 1700 Karma points.Bill Pflanz is appreciated, and has over 1700 Karma points.Bill Pflanz is appreciated, and has over 1700 Karma points.Bill Pflanz is appreciated, and has over 1700 Karma points.Bill Pflanz is appreciated, and has over 1700 Karma points.Bill Pflanz is appreciated, and has over 1700 Karma points.Bill Pflanz is appreciated, and has over 1700 Karma points.Bill Pflanz is appreciated, and has over 1700 Karma points.Bill Pflanz is appreciated, and has over 1700 Karma points.Bill Pflanz is appreciated, and has over 1700 Karma points.Bill Pflanz is appreciated, and has over 1700 Karma points.
Default

I am considering writing a fictional account about a quality engineer who applies Six Sigma to the Placebo Effect Theory of Quality. Since any tool will work to show that the change may or may not have an effect, it should be easy to understand for any layman.

My working title is Sick Sigma Tools for Quality Hypochondriacs. Could be a best seller and I can finally retire.

Bill Pflanz
Reply With Quote
Thanks to Bill Pflanz for your informative Post and/or Attachment!
Reply

Lower Navigation Bar
Go Back   The Elsmar Cove Forum > Common Quality Assurance Processes and Tools > Six Sigma

Bookmarks


Visitors Currently Viewing this Thread: 1 (0 Registered Visitors and 1 Unregistered Guests)
 
Thread Tools Search this Thread
Search this Thread:

Advanced Forum Search
Display Modes Rate Thread Content
Rate Thread Content:

Posting Settings
You may not post new threads
You may not post replies
You may not post attachments
You may not edit your posts

BB code is On
Smilies are On
[IMG] code is On
HTML code is Off

Forum Jump

Similar Discussion Threads
Discussion Thread Title Thread Starter Forum Replies Last Post or Poll Vote
Confusion DPU, PPM & DPMO vs. Sigma Level - ASQ Six Sigma Black Belt hand book Stephane Dubreuil Six Sigma 8 19th June 2009 01:57 PM
Six Sigma - Any ideas on writing a research paper on six sigma? john_johnson Six Sigma 6 9th July 2005 05:41 PM
A Six Sigma Challenge on Usenet - Does six sigma *really* save money? Jim Wynne Six Sigma 5 20th February 2005 12:14 PM
6 Sigma - Trainer! We need someone to conduct on site 6 Sigma Green Belt training Jim Robinson Training - Internal, External and Distance Learning 3 20th December 2004 05:43 PM
Help with Six Sigma DMAIC (Define - Measure - Analyze - Improve - Control) Q rex Six Sigma 1 16th July 2001 12:56 PM



The time now is 06:46 AM. All times are GMT -4.
The time zone can be changed in your UserCP --> Options.



   

All Y'All Come Back Now, Y' Hear?

Made With A Mac! FreeBSD OS Powered by Apache!
Using php4 Forums provided and maintained by Marc Smith Database by MySQL

FAIR USE and CORRECTNESS NOTICE: This site contains copyrighted material the use of which has not always been specifically authorized by the copyright owner. We are making such material available in our efforts to advance understanding of environmental, political, human rights, economic, democracy, scientific, and social justice issues, etc. We believe herein constitutes a 'fair use' of any such copyrighted material as provided for in section 107 of the US Copyright Law. In accordance with Title 17 U.S.C. Section 107, the material on this site is distributed without profit to those who have expressed a prior interest in receiving the included information for research and educational purposes. For more information go to: http://www.law.cornell.edu/uscode/17/ If you wish to use copyrighted material from this site for purposes of your own that go beyond 'fair use', you must obtain permission from the copyright owner. In addition, I do not guarantee the correctness of the content. The risk of using content from the Elsmar Cove web site and forums remains with the user/visitor.

Responsibility Statement: Each person is responsible for anything they post in the Elsmar Cove forum. Neither I, Marc Timothy Smith, nor any of the forum Moderators, are responsible for the content of posts people make. Liability for post content resides with the poster as does interpretation and/or acceptance and/or use of advice by the reader.

Complaints: If you have a complaint with a post in a forum discussion thread, including Content in general, fighting, flaming, copyright infringement, defamation and/or 'slander', please use the 'Report This Post Report This Post Button button which appears at the top of every post in every thread.

Site courtesy of:
Marc Timothy Smith - Cayman Business Systems, 8466 Lesourdsville-West Chester Road, West Chester, Ohio 45069-1929 - USA
(513) 341-6272

To contact me, click the Google Voice link below, enter Your Name and Your Phone Number and Google will ring your phone and connect you for free!

The Elsmar Cove Web Site is *CopyFree*
no new posts