The Elsmar Cove Forum and Site Map The Elsmar Cove Wiki More Free Files The Elsmar Cove Forums Discussion Thread Index Post Attachments Listing Failure Modes Services and Solutions to Problems Elsmar cove Forums Main Page Elsmar Cove Home Page

Go Back   The Elsmar Cove Forum > Common Quality Assurance Processes and Tools > Philosophy, Gurus, Controversy and Evolution


The Elsmar Cove Forum SideBar!
Monitor the Forum
Monitor New Forum Posts
New Threads Feeds
RSS FeedRSS Feed
Sponsor Link










$ Contributor Forum Access
Courtesy Quick Links

Links that Elsmar Cove visitors will find useful in your quest for knowledge:


Howard's International Quality Services

Atul's Symphony Technologies

Dave Scott's Scott Quality Solutions

Praxiom Research Group


NIST's Engineering Statistics Handbook

IRCA - International Register of Certified Auditors

SAE - Society of Automotive Engineers

Quality Digest Portal

IEST - Institute of Environmental Sciences and Technology

ASQ - American Society for Quality


All the Important Standards and Related Web Sites in the World
Reply
 
Thread Tools Search this Thread Rate Thread Content Display Modes
  #1  
Old 5th July 2004, 12:27 PM
Lisa Boreanaz Lisa Boreanaz is offline
Inactive Registered Visitor

Registration Date: Jun 2004
Location: Toronto, ON
 
Posts: 3
Thanks Given to Others: 0
Thanked 0 Times in 0 Posts
Karma Power: 23
Karma: 10
Lisa Boreanaz has less than 100 Karma points so far.
I Say... Change the name Quality System - Remove the word 'Quality' - Any Suggestions?

Our Division Head suggested that we change the name Quality System to something that doesn't include the word QUALITY. He feels that "Quality System puts the onus on the Quality Department to do anything relating to quality. He believes that "quality is everyone's responsibility"!

Any suggestions?
Lisa
Reply With Quote

Sponsored Links
  #2  
Old 5th July 2004, 12:31 PM
The Taz!'s Avatar
The Taz! The Taz! is offline
Courtesy Access

Registration Date: Nov 2003
Location: Connecticut
Age: 59
 
Posts: 493
Thanks Given to Others: 1
Thanked 4 Times in 3 Posts
Karma Power: 46
Karma: 619
The Taz! is appreciated, and has over 500 Karma points.The Taz! is appreciated, and has over 500 Karma points.The Taz! is appreciated, and has over 500 Karma points.The Taz! is appreciated, and has over 500 Karma points.The Taz! is appreciated, and has over 500 Karma points.The Taz! is appreciated, and has over 500 Karma points.
Send a message via AIM to The Taz! Send a message via Yahoo to The Taz!
Default

Quote:
Originally Posted by Lisa Boreanaz

Our Division Head suggested that we change the name Quality System to something that doesn't include the word QUALITY. He feels that "Quality System puts the onus on the Quality Department to do anything relating to quality. He believes that "quality is everyone's responsibility"!

Any suggestions?
Lisa
I'd suggest using what Roxy and a couple of other companies have. . . a BMS (Business Management System), and use the standard (ISO 9K2K or other) as a tool of the BMS.
__________________
If something is over engineered. . . it will probably be under manufactured! (Jim Eustace 1993)
Reply With Quote
Sponsored Links

  #3  
Old 5th July 2004, 12:41 PM
Marc's Avatar
Marc Marc is offline
Your Elsmar Cove Host

Registration Date: Jan 1996
Location: West Chester, Ohio - USA
Age: 59
 
Posts: 15,859
Thanks Given to Others: 1,895
Thanked 1,568 Times in 1,020 Posts
Blog Entries: 4
Karma Power: 605
Karma: 11569
Marc is appreciated, and has over 1700 Karma points.Marc is appreciated, and has over 1700 Karma points.Marc is appreciated, and has over 1700 Karma points.
Marc is appreciated, and has over 1700 Karma points.Marc is appreciated, and has over 1700 Karma points.Marc is appreciated, and has over 1700 Karma points.Marc is appreciated, and has over 1700 Karma points.Marc is appreciated, and has over 1700 Karma points.Marc is appreciated, and has over 1700 Karma points.Marc is appreciated, and has over 1700 Karma points.Marc is appreciated, and has over 1700 Karma points.Marc is appreciated, and has over 1700 Karma points.Marc is appreciated, and has over 1700 Karma points.Marc is appreciated, and has over 1700 Karma points.Marc is appreciated, and has over 1700 Karma points.Marc is appreciated, and has over 1700 Karma points.Marc is appreciated, and has over 1700 Karma points.
Send a message via AIM to Marc Send a message via Skype™ to Marc
Default

I agree. Some of you may have noticed I have suggested Business Systems for years. Business Management System works for me!
__________________
A Search is a terrible thing to waste!
One Test is Worth 1000 Expert Opinions - The plural of anecdote is not data.
We can't solve problems by using the same kind of thinking we used when we created them. - Unknown
Reply With Quote
  #4  
Old 5th July 2004, 01:11 PM
Govind's Avatar
Govind Govind is offline
Super Moderator

Registration Date: Apr 2004
Location: Fremont, California
 
Posts: 546
Thanks Given to Others: 13
Thanked 36 Times in 35 Posts
Karma Power: 50
Govind has disabled his/her Karma.
Default

I would certainly agree with the term "Business Management System" if you can add elements like :

Leadership,Strategic Planning, project management, Employee satisfaction,Business results to the existing ISO 9k2K requirements. These are the areas are either ISO9k2K is weak or not included.

Hope the next version of ISO 9001 will accommodate these missing links.

We added those elements, created our internal system and named Business Management System.

Govind.
Reply With Quote
  #5  
Old 5th July 2004, 02:57 PM
Wes Bucey's Avatar
Wes Bucey Wes Bucey is offline
Quality Manager

Registration Date: Sep 2003
Location: Illinois
 
Posts: 7,537
Thanks Given to Others: 182
Thanked 1,127 Times in 762 Posts
Karma Power: 397
Karma: 11090
Wes Bucey is appreciated, and has over 1700 Karma points.Wes Bucey is appreciated, and has over 1700 Karma points.Wes Bucey is appreciated, and has over 1700 Karma points.
Wes Bucey is appreciated, and has over 1700 Karma points.Wes Bucey is appreciated, and has over 1700 Karma points.Wes Bucey is appreciated, and has over 1700 Karma points.Wes Bucey is appreciated, and has over 1700 Karma points.Wes Bucey is appreciated, and has over 1700 Karma points.Wes Bucey is appreciated, and has over 1700 Karma points.Wes Bucey is appreciated, and has over 1700 Karma points.Wes Bucey is appreciated, and has over 1700 Karma points.Wes Bucey is appreciated, and has over 1700 Karma points.Wes Bucey is appreciated, and has over 1700 Karma points.Wes Bucey is appreciated, and has over 1700 Karma points.Wes Bucey is appreciated, and has over 1700 Karma points.
Default

Quote:
Originally Posted by Govind

I would certainly agree with the term "Business Management System" if you can add elements like :

Leadership,Strategic Planning, project management, Employee satisfaction,Business results to the existing ISO 9k2K requirements. These are the areas are either ISO9k2K is weak or not included.

Hope the next version of ISO 9001 will accommodate these missing links.

We added those elements, created our internal system and named Business Management System.

Govind.
I have absolutely no problem with making the so-called Quality functions a subset of the business management system.

My caveat concerns organizations seeking to get registered to either ISO9k2k or TS16949. When I first tried to "blend" ISO9k2k and the Federal Aviation Administration's Fabrication Inspection System (FAA-FIS) to get FAA Parts Manufacturer Approval (FAA-PMA) status, it was as if I had prepared the documents in Klingon for a Dawson's Creek aficianado!

I was told in no uncertain terms in early 2001, "The FAA doesn't recognize any other Quality System but the FIS!"

Other organizations (compliant or registered with AS9100 or ISO9k2k) holding or seeking FAA-PMA were maintaining TWO SEPARATE Quality Manuals - one following a very prescriptive FAA outline, the other following the ISO offshoot.

The concept was just too alien for my FAA guy to grasp - I had to ultimately add a grid showing the relationship of FAA-FIS criteria to ISO9k2k criteria and walk him through the manual page by page until he "got it."

I strongly suspect many 2nd and 3rd party auditors may have a similar assimilation challenge.

Since I wasn't a Borg, I wasn't programmed to say, "Resistance is futile. You will be assimilated."
__________________
"Few minds wear out; more rust out"
Inscribed over the entrance of Louis Pasteur School, Chicago
Christian Nestell Bovee (1820-1904) in Thoughts, Feelings and Fancies, 1857
Reply With Quote
  #6  
Old 5th July 2004, 03:19 PM
Claes Gefvenberg's Avatar
Claes Gefvenberg Claes Gefvenberg is offline
Forum Administrator

Registration Date: May 2000
Location: Eskilstuna, Sweden
Age: 49
 
Posts: 3,771
Thanks Given to Others: 246
Thanked 244 Times in 172 Posts
Blog Entries: 13
Karma Power: 213
Karma: 4951
Claes Gefvenberg is appreciated, and has over 1700 Karma points.
Claes Gefvenberg is appreciated, and has over 1700 Karma points.Claes Gefvenberg is appreciated, and has over 1700 Karma points.Claes Gefvenberg is appreciated, and has over 1700 Karma points.Claes Gefvenberg is appreciated, and has over 1700 Karma points.Claes Gefvenberg is appreciated, and has over 1700 Karma points.Claes Gefvenberg is appreciated, and has over 1700 Karma points.Claes Gefvenberg is appreciated, and has over 1700 Karma points.Claes Gefvenberg is appreciated, and has over 1700 Karma points.Claes Gefvenberg is appreciated, and has over 1700 Karma points.Claes Gefvenberg is appreciated, and has over 1700 Karma points.Claes Gefvenberg is appreciated, and has over 1700 Karma points.Claes Gefvenberg is appreciated, and has over 1700 Karma points.
Quid Pro Quo

I agree with the BMS suggestions. And welcome to the Cove Lisa Keep posting. The fact that your Division Head considers quality to be everyone's responsibility should keep your posts interesting.


/Claes
__________________
Hanlon's Razor.
Never attribute to malice that which can be adequately explained by stupidity.
User Groups: Elsmar Cove Cycling Enthusiasts Formula 1 fanatics Photo freaks Readers Corner
Reply With Quote
  #7  
Old 6th July 2004, 12:14 AM
WALLACE's Avatar
WALLACE WALLACE is offline
Courtesy Access

Registration Date: Nov 2000
Location: CANADA / ONTARIO
Age: 49
 
Posts: 750
Thanks Given to Others: 1
Thanked 13 Times in 10 Posts
Karma Power: 67
Karma: 771
WALLACE is appreciated, and has over 700 Karma points.WALLACE is appreciated, and has over 700 Karma points.WALLACE is appreciated, and has over 700 Karma points.WALLACE is appreciated, and has over 700 Karma points.WALLACE is appreciated, and has over 700 Karma points.WALLACE is appreciated, and has over 700 Karma points.WALLACE is appreciated, and has over 700 Karma points.
Send a message via Skype™ to WALLACE
Default

Yeah,
BMS seems to be the norm these days for defining an organizational standardized format.
I've noted BOS (Business Operational System) being used too.
Wallace.
__________________
Ask, Seek, Knock.
Reply With Quote
  #8  
Old 6th July 2004, 03:26 AM
Greg B's Avatar
Greg B Greg B is offline
Super Moderator

Registration Date: Mar 2003
Location: Rockhampton, Queensland, Australia
Age: 49
 
Posts: 832
Thanks Given to Others: 11
Thanked 31 Times in 22 Posts
Karma Power: 83
Karma: 1996
Greg B is appreciated, and has over 1700 Karma points.Greg B is appreciated, and has over 1700 Karma points.Greg B is appreciated, and has over 1700 Karma points.Greg B is appreciated, and has over 1700 Karma points.Greg B is appreciated, and has over 1700 Karma points.Greg B is appreciated, and has over 1700 Karma points.Greg B is appreciated, and has over 1700 Karma points.Greg B is appreciated, and has over 1700 Karma points.Greg B is appreciated, and has over 1700 Karma points.Greg B is appreciated, and has over 1700 Karma points.Greg B is appreciated, and has over 1700 Karma points.Greg B is appreciated, and has over 1700 Karma points.
Default What does a BMS mean to US?

Hi all,

I have always espoused a title such as BMS even though ours is still called a QMS...but I read an article the other day in the Australian Quality Magazine (sorry can't reproduce and have not got it handy) and it stated that many companies are now treading down this path but at what peril to our profession and quality as a stand alone system? I agree that Quality is everyone's business but time and time again quality is driven by the resident professional. In time will we simply become 'Business Graduates or Specialists' that specialise in quality? I personally think that this will be the case but will this be a bad thing? Food for thought?
PS: A BMS should encompass everything!!!!! (Safety, Health, Quality and Environment)

Greg B
__________________
- Greg B -
'Vision without action is a daydream. Action without vision is a nightmare'

Last edited by Greg B; 6th July 2004 at 03:28 AM. Reason: Typos
Reply With Quote
Reply

Lower Navigation Bar
Go Back   The Elsmar Cove Forum > Common Quality Assurance Processes and Tools > Philosophy, Gurus, Controversy and Evolution

Bookmarks


Visitors Currently Viewing this Thread: 1 (0 Registered Visitors and 1 Unregistered Guests)
 
Thread Tools Search this Thread
Search this Thread:

Advanced Forum Search
Display Modes Rate Thread Content
Rate Thread Content:

Posting Settings
You may not post new threads
You may not post replies
You may not post attachments
You may not edit your posts

BB code is On
Smilies are On
[IMG] code is On
HTML code is Off

Forum Jump

Similar Discussion Threads
Discussion Thread Title Thread Starter Forum Replies Last Post or Poll Vote
Complete change of the ISO 9001 Quality Management System aypsila ISO 9001 - Quality Management Systems Standard 13 27th June 2009 04:37 AM
Change over from pharma-quality systems to ISO 9001 quality system v9991 Occupation Discussions 1 23rd March 2009 08:35 AM
Should I remove references to AS9120 / ISO 9001 from my Quality Manual and QMS? fletch AS9100 Aerospace Standard and Requirements 7 15th October 2008 08:05 PM
How do you remove company politics from quality? Zuggy Quality Assurance and Business Standards News 31 26th October 2006 11:46 AM



The time now is 05:23 AM. All times are GMT -4.
The time zone can be changed in your UserCP --> Options.



   

All Y'All Come Back Now, Y' Hear?

Made With A Mac! FreeBSD OS Powered by Apache!
Using php4 Forums provided and maintained by Marc Smith Database by MySQL

FAIR USE and CORRECTNESS NOTICE: This site contains copyrighted material the use of which has not always been specifically authorized by the copyright owner. We are making such material available in our efforts to advance understanding of environmental, political, human rights, economic, democracy, scientific, and social justice issues, etc. We believe herein constitutes a 'fair use' of any such copyrighted material as provided for in section 107 of the US Copyright Law. In accordance with Title 17 U.S.C. Section 107, the material on this site is distributed without profit to those who have expressed a prior interest in receiving the included information for research and educational purposes. For more information go to: http://www.law.cornell.edu/uscode/17/ If you wish to use copyrighted material from this site for purposes of your own that go beyond 'fair use', you must obtain permission from the copyright owner. In addition, I do not guarantee the correctness of the content. The risk of using content from the Elsmar Cove web site and forums remains with the user/visitor.

Responsibility Statement: Each person is responsible for anything they post in the Elsmar Cove forum. Neither I, Marc Timothy Smith, nor any of the forum Moderators, are responsible for the content of posts people make. Liability for post content resides with the poster as does interpretation and/or acceptance and/or use of advice by the reader.

Complaints: If you have a complaint with a post in a forum discussion thread, including Content in general, fighting, flaming, copyright infringement, defamation and/or 'slander', please use the 'Report This Post Report This Post Button button which appears at the top of every post in every thread.

Site courtesy of:
Marc Timothy Smith - Cayman Business Systems, 8466 Lesourdsville-West Chester Road, West Chester, Ohio 45069-1929 - USA
(513) 341-6272

To contact me, click the Google Voice link below, enter Your Name and Your Phone Number and Google will ring your phone and connect you for free!

The Elsmar Cove Web Site is *CopyFree*
no new posts