The Elsmar Cove Forum and Site Map The Elsmar Cove Wiki More Free Files The Elsmar Cove Forums Discussion Thread Index Post Attachments Listing Failure Modes Services and Solutions to Problems Elsmar cove Forums Main Page Elsmar Cove Home Page

Go Back   The Elsmar Cove Forum > National and International Business Standards > Various Other Specifications, Standards, and related Requirements


The Elsmar Cove Forum SideBar!
Monitor the Forum
Monitor New Forum Posts
New Threads Feeds
RSS FeedRSS Feed
Sponsor Link










$ Contributor Forum Access
Courtesy Quick Links

Links that Elsmar Cove visitors will find useful in your quest for knowledge:


Howard's International Quality Services

Atul's Symphony Technologies

Dave Scott's Scott Quality Solutions

Praxiom Research Group


NIST's Engineering Statistics Handbook

IRCA - International Register of Certified Auditors

SAE - Society of Automotive Engineers

Quality Digest Portal

IEST - Institute of Environmental Sciences and Technology

ASQ - American Society for Quality


All the Important Standards and Related Web Sites in the World
Reply
 
Thread Tools Search this Thread Rate Thread Content Display Modes
  #1  
Old 6th July 2004, 06:27 PM
leanne leanne is offline
Involved in Discussions

Registration Date: Feb 2002
Location: Texas, it's like a whole 'nother country
 
Posts: 26
Thanks Given to Others: 7
Thanked 1 Time in 1 Post
Karma Power: 32
Karma: 15
leanne has less than 100 Karma points so far.
Listen To Me! IPC/EIA J-STD-001 (soldering) revisions (Want to replace IPC-A-610)

I'm lazy & hate to reinvent the wheel so I've been hammering away at search engines looking for an answer.

I've been searching online & so far have only come up with one link that was usable for J-STD-001A to J-STD-001B. All of my favorite search tools have failed me.

I have a design engineer wanting to replace IPC-A-610 (no rev referenced) with J-STD-001A in an design change. Our company is working to J-STD-001B. The latest version approved & available is J-STD-001C. I prefer to either not reference the revision of the J-STD (since the drawing indicates "the issue in effect at the date of invitation for bids or request for proposal shall apply") or use the version for which our inspection staff has been trained. The design engineer wants to know the difference between these three doc versions. I can only access J-STD-001C on usainfo & our internal approved version of J-STD-001B (with additional requirements for "important aspects" not covered in the J-STD-001B - for some reason, the powers that be have not seen fit to adopt J-STD-001C).

Does anyone have any non-intranet links in your favorites/bookmarks that compare/contrast J-STD-001A to J-STD-001B and/or J-STD-001B to J-STD-001C?


Reply With Quote

Sponsored Links
  #2  
Old 6th July 2004, 10:01 PM
Al Rosen's Avatar
Al Rosen Al Rosen is offline
Forum Moderator

Registration Date: Jun 2002
Location: Lawn Guyland
Age: 59
 
Posts: 3,101
Thanks Given to Others: 48
Thanked 390 Times in 272 Posts
Karma Power: 192
Karma: 4968
Al Rosen is appreciated, and has over 1700 Karma points.
Al Rosen is appreciated, and has over 1700 Karma points.Al Rosen is appreciated, and has over 1700 Karma points.Al Rosen is appreciated, and has over 1700 Karma points.Al Rosen is appreciated, and has over 1700 Karma points.Al Rosen is appreciated, and has over 1700 Karma points.Al Rosen is appreciated, and has over 1700 Karma points.Al Rosen is appreciated, and has over 1700 Karma points.Al Rosen is appreciated, and has over 1700 Karma points.Al Rosen is appreciated, and has over 1700 Karma points.Al Rosen is appreciated, and has over 1700 Karma points.Al Rosen is appreciated, and has over 1700 Karma points.Al Rosen is appreciated, and has over 1700 Karma points.
Send a message via AIM to Al Rosen
Default

Quote:
Originally Posted by leanne

I'm lazy & hate to reinvent the wheel so I've been hammering away at search engines looking for an answer.

I've been searching online & so far have only come up with one link that was usable for J-STD-001A to J-STD-001B. All of my favorite search tools have failed me.

I have a design engineer wanting to replace IPC-A-610 (no rev referenced) with J-STD-001A in an design change. Our company is working to J-STD-001B. The latest version approved & available is J-STD-001C. I prefer to either not reference the revision of the J-STD (since the drawing indicates "the issue in effect at the date of invitation for bids or request for proposal shall apply") or use the version for which our inspection staff has been trained. The design engineer wants to know the difference between these three doc versions. I can only access J-STD-001C on usainfo & our internal approved version of J-STD-001B (with additional requirements for "important aspects" not covered in the J-STD-001B - for some reason, the powers that be have not seen fit to adopt J-STD-001C).

Does anyone have any non-intranet links in your favorites/bookmarks that compare/contrast J-STD-001A to J-STD-001B and/or J-STD-001B to J-STD-001C?


I believe that IPC-610 and J-std-001 are virtually the same. In fact IPC-610 references the J-std. Also, IPC-A-610, I believe, is in revision and due out in January. I like 610 because of the nice photos. I would use it just for that as a reference. There are also 3 classifications that 610 addtresses, determined by the reliability required.
__________________
Al
Reply With Quote
Sponsored Links

  #3  
Old 7th July 2004, 03:55 AM
Wes Bucey's Avatar
Wes Bucey Wes Bucey is offline
Quality Manager

Registration Date: Sep 2003
Location: Illinois
 
Posts: 7,534
Thanks Given to Others: 182
Thanked 1,127 Times in 762 Posts
Karma Power: 397
Karma: 11090
Wes Bucey is appreciated, and has over 1700 Karma points.Wes Bucey is appreciated, and has over 1700 Karma points.Wes Bucey is appreciated, and has over 1700 Karma points.
Wes Bucey is appreciated, and has over 1700 Karma points.Wes Bucey is appreciated, and has over 1700 Karma points.Wes Bucey is appreciated, and has over 1700 Karma points.Wes Bucey is appreciated, and has over 1700 Karma points.Wes Bucey is appreciated, and has over 1700 Karma points.Wes Bucey is appreciated, and has over 1700 Karma points.Wes Bucey is appreciated, and has over 1700 Karma points.Wes Bucey is appreciated, and has over 1700 Karma points.Wes Bucey is appreciated, and has over 1700 Karma points.Wes Bucey is appreciated, and has over 1700 Karma points.Wes Bucey is appreciated, and has over 1700 Karma points.Wes Bucey is appreciated, and has over 1700 Karma points.
Default

Quote:
Originally Posted by Al Rosen

I believe that IPC-610 and J-std-001 are virtually the same. In fact IPC-610 references the J-std. Also, IPC-A-610, I believe, is in revision and due out in January. I like 610 because of the nice photos. I would use it just for that as a reference. There are also 3 classifications that 610 addtresses, determined by the reliability required.
I came across this reference at http://www.engineeringlab.com/ipca610.html
Quote:
TE0009 Rev B to C Changes for IPC-A-610 & J-STD-001
This course presents what changes were made in changing revisions of these documents. Only content within the modules that has been changed is presented. The course is written so that it's more understandable for the typical production worker. We use our own images, animation and digital photos that bring better understanding to the spec. The material is broken down into more logical chapters and we test the student on every objective that is presented.
CAVEAT!
This is a site which sells a course for $99 - I have no idea whether the couse is worthwhile, but they obviously have access to the documents you seek. Push comes to shove, you can ask them where to get what you need. I have absolutely no connection with them or anyone in the soldering trade.

I came across this site by Googling "IPC-A-610" (using the quote marks)

Here's an even more pertinent note at http://www.skolnik-tech.com/what_is_..._j_std_001.htm
Quote:
What is the difference between IPC-A-610 Standard & IPC/EIA J-STD-001 Standard?

With the cancellation of MIL-STD-2000 and other Department of Defense soldering/material standards, J-STD-001C is the sole industry-consensus standard covering soldering materials and processes. Produced by IPC and EIA, this standard describes the materials, practices, requirements, methods and verification & acceptance criteria for producing quality soldered electrical & electronic interconnections and assemblies. Its intent is to utilize the process control methodology to ensure consistent quality levels during the manufacture of products.

This standard recognizes that electrical and electronic assemblies are subject to classifications by intended end-item use. Three general end-product classes have been established to reflect differences in producibility, complexity, functional performance requirements, and verification (inspection/test) frequency. It should be recognized that there may be overlaps of equipment between classes. J-STD-001C presents clear & precise requirements for all three standard classes of construction and fully complements IPC-A-610C.

Class 1: General Electronic Products - Includes products suitable for applications where the major requirement is the function of the completed assembly.

Class 2: Dedicated Service Electronic Products - Includes products where continued performance and extended life is required, and for which uninterrupted service is desired but not critical. Typically the end-use environment would not cause failures.

Class 3: High Performance Electronic Products - Includes products where high continued performance and performance-on-demand is critical, equipment downtime cannot be tolerated, end-use environment may be uncommonly harsh, and the equipment must function when required, such as life support or other critical systems.

As mentioned above, IPC-A-610C synchronizes to the requirements expressed in other industry consensus documents and is used with the material and process standard IPC/EIA J-STD-001. IPC-A-610C does complement J-STD-001C; however has criteria outside the scope of J-STD-001C defining handling, mechanical and other workmanship requirements. It is invaluable for all inspectors, operators and trainers as it specifies the industry-accepted workmanship criteria for electronics assemblies, including component orientation and soldering criteria for through-hole, SMT and discrete wiring assemblies, mechanical assembly, cleaning, marking, coating, and laminate requirements, supported and unsupported holes, high voltage applications, jumper wires, etc.

In summary, both IPC-A-610C and IPC/EIA J-STD-001 utilize the same soldering acceptance criteria & requirements. However, J-STD-001 primarily focuses on the soldering issues, whereas IPC-A-610 provides a broader application, including mechanical assembly aspects. The two standards balance each other, and many manufacturers use both of them. In particular, the users may specify J-STD-001 since this standard requires controls during their manufacturing process that the end-item inspection standard IPC-A-610 does not address.

For example, if the assembly has various components that are known to be functionally damaged by high heat, J-STD-001 requires that an acceptable process be developed and documented, and that documentation exist to ensure that the appropriate method is followed during manufacturing. With today’s computer controlled reflow ovens, etc., this is not much of an issue as the process data is typically logged automatically. If the reflow process gets out of control and runs too hot for those sensitive components, most likely the solder connections would appear fine visually and the assembly would progress to the next assembly level. However, if the required J-STD-001 documentation indicated that an assembly was subjected to unacceptably high temperatures during reflow, the engineers will become involved regarding the acceptability for use. It could save a lot of money to detect & to remove a marginal assembly before additional unnecessary cost is incurred at the next level assembly & testing.

In general, when IPC/EIA J-STD-001 is cited or required by contract, the requirements of IPC-A-610 do not apply unless separately or specifically required. When IPC-A-610 is cited in conjunction with IPC/EIA J-STD-001, the order of precedence is to be defined in the procurement documents.
Although I found this; frankly, I would need to take a refresher course to fully understand it. I hope this starts you on the track to finding exactly what you need.
__________________
"Few minds wear out; more rust out"
Inscribed over the entrance of Louis Pasteur School, Chicago
Christian Nestell Bovee (1820-1904) in Thoughts, Feelings and Fancies, 1857

Last edited by Wes Bucey; 7th July 2004 at 04:06 AM.
Reply With Quote
  #4  
Old 14th July 2004, 03:02 PM
leanne leanne is offline
Involved in Discussions

Registration Date: Feb 2002
Location: Texas, it's like a whole 'nother country
 
Posts: 26
Thanks Given to Others: 7
Thanked 1 Time in 1 Post
Karma Power: 32
Karma: 15
leanne has less than 100 Karma points so far.
Default

OK, as an update...

I witnessed AT at this supplier (sole source on design up for revision) & noticed the training certificates for J-STD-001 were revision B - someone from my company trained this supplier to the requirements of J-STD-001B class 3. That settled the J-STD rev issue for the ECN when I shared this with the design engineer - he has agreed with me that replacing IPC-A-610 (no rev) with J-STD-001B is the course we will take.

BTW, I'd like to re-iterate that the differences between IPC-A-610 & J-STD-001 was not an issue. The deltas between J-STD-001A to J-STD-001B & J-STD-001B to J-STD-001C were the issue. And, I'm still looking for a comparison of the J-STD revs - in case this question ever arises again....


Last edited by leanne; 14th July 2004 at 03:07 PM.
Reply With Quote
Reply

Lower Navigation Bar
Go Back   The Elsmar Cove Forum > National and International Business Standards > Various Other Specifications, Standards, and related Requirements

Bookmarks


Visitors Currently Viewing this Thread: 1 (0 Registered Visitors and 1 Unregistered Guests)
 
Thread Tools Search this Thread
Search this Thread:

Advanced Forum Search
Display Modes Rate Thread Content
Rate Thread Content:

Posting Settings
You may not post new threads
You may not post replies
You may not post attachments
You may not edit your posts

BB code is On
Smilies are On
[IMG] code is On
HTML code is Off

Forum Jump

Similar Discussion Threads
Discussion Thread Title Thread Starter Forum Replies Last Post or Poll Vote
IPC/EIA J-STD 001 to 004 for Solder Specification 1killercls Various Other Specifications, Standards, and related Requirements 9 5th February 2009 05:02 PM
IPC-Std-610D Component Incoming (Receiving) Visual Inspection guru1000000 Various Other Specifications, Standards, and related Requirements 16 29th August 2008 07:02 PM
Where can I learn more about IPC-A-610D without training? chiuinggum Various Other Specifications, Standards, and related Requirements 9 24th January 2007 09:13 AM
IPC/EIA J-STD-004 - Requirements for Soldering Fluxes johnjbart Various Other Specifications, Standards, and related Requirements 3 11th August 2005 07:11 AM
Help with ANSI/IPC-A-610 C - The acceptable position of right angle headers qualitygoddess Various Other Specifications, Standards, and related Requirements 1 15th February 2005 02:25 PM



The time now is 05:27 AM. All times are GMT -4.
The time zone can be changed in your UserCP --> Options.



   

All Y'All Come Back Now, Y' Hear?

Made With A Mac! FreeBSD OS Powered by Apache!
Using php4 Forums provided and maintained by Marc Smith Database by MySQL

FAIR USE and CORRECTNESS NOTICE: This site contains copyrighted material the use of which has not always been specifically authorized by the copyright owner. We are making such material available in our efforts to advance understanding of environmental, political, human rights, economic, democracy, scientific, and social justice issues, etc. We believe herein constitutes a 'fair use' of any such copyrighted material as provided for in section 107 of the US Copyright Law. In accordance with Title 17 U.S.C. Section 107, the material on this site is distributed without profit to those who have expressed a prior interest in receiving the included information for research and educational purposes. For more information go to: http://www.law.cornell.edu/uscode/17/ If you wish to use copyrighted material from this site for purposes of your own that go beyond 'fair use', you must obtain permission from the copyright owner. In addition, I do not guarantee the correctness of the content. The risk of using content from the Elsmar Cove web site and forums remains with the user/visitor.

Responsibility Statement: Each person is responsible for anything they post in the Elsmar Cove forum. Neither I, Marc Timothy Smith, nor any of the forum Moderators, are responsible for the content of posts people make. Liability for post content resides with the poster as does interpretation and/or acceptance and/or use of advice by the reader.

Complaints: If you have a complaint with a post in a forum discussion thread, including Content in general, fighting, flaming, copyright infringement, defamation and/or 'slander', please use the 'Report This Post Report This Post Button button which appears at the top of every post in every thread.

Site courtesy of:
Marc Timothy Smith - Cayman Business Systems, 8466 Lesourdsville-West Chester Road, West Chester, Ohio 45069-1929 - USA
(513) 341-6272

To contact me, click the Google Voice link below, enter Your Name and Your Phone Number and Google will ring your phone and connect you for free!

The Elsmar Cove Web Site is *CopyFree*
no new posts