The Elsmar Cove Forum and Site Map The Elsmar Cove Wiki More Free Files The Elsmar Cove Forums Discussion Thread Index Post Attachments Listing Failure Modes Services and Solutions to Problems Elsmar cove Forums Main Page Elsmar Cove Home Page

Go Back   The Elsmar Cove Forum > Common Quality Assurance Processes and Tools > Inspection and Test, Sampling and Related Topics > AQL - Acceptable Quality Level


The Elsmar Cove Forum SideBar!
Monitor the Forum
Monitor New Forum Posts
New Threads Feeds
RSS FeedRSS Feed
Sponsor Link










$ Contributor Forum Access
Courtesy Quick Links

Links that Elsmar Cove visitors will find useful in your quest for knowledge:


Howard's International Quality Services

Atul's Symphony Technologies

Dave Scott's Scott Quality Solutions

Praxiom Research Group


NIST's Engineering Statistics Handbook

IRCA - International Register of Certified Auditors

SAE - Society of Automotive Engineers

Quality Digest Portal

IEST - Institute of Environmental Sciences and Technology

ASQ - American Society for Quality


All the Important Standards and Related Web Sites in the World
Reply
 
Thread Tools Search this Thread Rate Thread Content Display Modes
  #1  
Old 16th August 2004, 06:05 AM
Cartier Cartier is offline
Inactive Registered Visitor

Registration Date: Aug 2004
Location: France
 
Posts: 2
Thanks Given to Others: 0
Thanked 0 Times in 0 Posts
Karma Power: 22
Karma: 10
Cartier has less than 100 Karma points so far.
I Say... Linking Acceptable Quality Levels (AQL) and Average Output Quality

Hi,

I am currently working on the relation between AQLs and average quality output for the following reason:

AQLs for critical product defects (which render the product non-functional) are often defined at 0.15%, which corresponds to 15 parts per ten thousand. If you are talking about beer cans, if 15 leak every thousand that is a lot of cans leaking.

Suppliers usually say that if you define an AQL of 0.15%, the actual quality of the production is likely to be better than that percentage.

Would you agree with that statement?

If so, how do people link up actual quality output and average quality levels. My contact with suppliers has led me to believe that quite often they themselves do not fully understand the military standard 105.

My understanding is that if you define an AQL of 0.15% and you apply a normal sampling plan using military standard tables, as a buyer you only have a 10% chance that what you purchase is going to be outside of that acceptable quality level. That means there is a 90% chance that your purchase will be within that quality level, but then what is the chance that your quality will exceed that quality level.

On a standard OC curve (from http://iew3.technion.ac.il/sqconline/milstd.php3, aql 0.15%, II 35000-150000). I am interested if anyone knows how I can get a better picture of the probability between p=[0.0 0.0015].

Does anyone know about military standard history or where I can find out about how it was created. I am interested to know whether it was established through extensive testing by the military, or whether it stems from binomial distribution type mathematics.

Owen Cartier
Reply With Quote

Sponsored Links
  #2  
Old 16th August 2004, 06:36 AM
Charmed Charmed is offline
Inactive Registered Visitor

Registration Date: Jul 2004
Location: Troy, MI, U. S. A.
 
Posts: 138
Thanks Given to Others: 0
Thanked 0 Times in 0 Posts
Karma Power: 24
Karma: 49
Charmed has less than 100 Karma points so far.
Default Probability calculation, for low p values

Dear Cartier:

Here's my $0.01 worth.

You have, I am sure, heard about the normal, or Gaussian, distribution curve. If you test the lifetime of a light bulb, for example, the data, follows the normal distribution. If you test the lifetime of tires, again we will see a normal distribution! That's the marvel of mathematical logic.

We can take the area under the normal distribution curve as a measure of the probability of the occurrence of an event. For the standard normal curve (see textbooks), the total area under the curve is taken as 1. This area can now be divided into two parts. One part of the area is probability of success. Let's say it is 0.85. The probability of failiure, or producing defect, is the other part of the area. This is 1 - 0.85 = 0.15. I picked this because you were talking about 15% defects. Probability of success plus probability of failure equals 1.

Now, how do we find these areas? We make measurements. Let's call each such measurement X. We make a lot of measurements. We get an 'average' or the mean value. Let's call it M. (In statistics books, they call it mu, the Greek letter). Then, we can find the standard deviation. Let's call it S. (They call it sigma, another Greek letter.)

Now, we can go from X, which is called raw score, to what they call Z score. The Z-score is defined as Z = (X - M)/S.

There are tables which give the area under the normal curve, up to the desired Z value. The Z-values go from minus infinity to plus infinity. If Z = 0, X = M, the average value and so on both sides of the mean. Statistical packages (MINITAB) also make these calculations very easy. You can write your own program, using Microsoft Excel, which is what I would do for this purpose. (This also helps me avoid some approximations made in the calculations, commonly carried into statistical packages. This can be avoided now, since we have such awesome computing power in our hands now.)

Once, you get all your measurements, you refer to the tables and find the probability of being outside certain limits (converted to Z values). Hence, we calculate the area between Z = 0 to Z = USL, the Upper Specification Limit, converted to Z using the M and S values. You can also do the area calculations using the library of functions in Microsoft Excel.

You should be able to get actual worked examples in many standard statistics books. The example of lifetime of light bulbs, or tire life (e.g. to offer a warranty of exceeding a certain miles to the customer) is discussed in many books.

Hope this is helpful.

Charmed

P. S. If you have some numbers, please feel free to post them and let's do the calculations here.

Last edited by Charmed; 16th August 2004 at 07:35 AM. Reason: Typo
Reply With Quote
Sponsored Links

  #3  
Old 16th August 2004, 08:00 AM
Cartier Cartier is offline
Inactive Registered Visitor

Registration Date: Aug 2004
Location: France
 
Posts: 2
Thanks Given to Others: 0
Thanked 0 Times in 0 Posts
Karma Power: 22
Karma: 10
Cartier has less than 100 Karma points so far.
Default

Thanks for your feedback. I understand the normal distribution curve theory, but rather than using numbers to work out probabilities between 0 and 0.0015, I am more interested in the maths behind the actual acceptable quality level tables. Where does all this information come from.

For probabilities between 0 and 0.0015, I am trying to figure out if I set an AQL of 0.15%, what is the probability that my production will have an average output quality of 0.05%?? Is there a way to measure this? Why do suppliers often suggest that this is the case.
Reply With Quote
  #4  
Old 16th August 2004, 05:56 PM
Govind's Avatar
Govind Govind is offline
Super Moderator

Registration Date: Apr 2004
Location: Fremont, California
 
Posts: 546
Thanks Given to Others: 13
Thanked 36 Times in 35 Posts
Karma Power: 50
Govind has disabled his/her Karma.
Default

Cartier,
See attached.Here is my attempt to explain this by an example. I have made several assumptions due to lack of supporting specification.
Regards,
Govind.
Attached Files: 1. Scan for viruses before using, 2. Please report any 'bad' files by Reporting the post it is in, 3. Use at your Own Risk.
File Type: doc Elsmar Sampling Question.doc (37.0 KB, 370 views)
Reply With Quote
  #5  
Old 16th August 2004, 07:55 PM
Tim Folkerts's Avatar
Tim Folkerts Tim Folkerts is online now
Forum Moderator

Registration Date: Sep 2003
Location: Kansas, USA
Age: 46
 
Posts: 900
Thanks Given to Others: 27
Thanked 249 Times in 150 Posts
Karma Power: 123
Karma: 3974
Tim Folkerts is appreciated, and has over 1700 Karma points.
Tim Folkerts is appreciated, and has over 1700 Karma points.Tim Folkerts is appreciated, and has over 1700 Karma points.Tim Folkerts is appreciated, and has over 1700 Karma points.Tim Folkerts is appreciated, and has over 1700 Karma points.Tim Folkerts is appreciated, and has over 1700 Karma points.Tim Folkerts is appreciated, and has over 1700 Karma points.Tim Folkerts is appreciated, and has over 1700 Karma points.Tim Folkerts is appreciated, and has over 1700 Karma points.
Default

Cartier,

Two comments.

1) The relationship between AQL and risk is tenuous at best. I worked out the numbers once for a variety of AQL levels and lot sizes, an discovered that I couldn't find any specific criteron for how the accept/reject numbers were set. Typically, about 95% of the lots are excepted when a) the actual quality of the lot = AQL and b) the lot size is large. When the lot size is smaller, then the lot has to be considerably better than the AQL to be accepted 95% of the time (about 1/3 AQL).

In other words, there is no simple rule and you have to look at the OC curve if you really want to know the odds of accepting lots at any specific quality and for any specified MIL-STD-105E (ASQ Z1.4) sampling plan.


2) The average quality that you accept can only be determined if you know something about the quality coming in. Consider your plan with AQL = 0.15 (=0.15% defective). As an extreme example, suppose that every one of the incoming lots is exactly 0.5% defective. You will reject many of the lots, but you will also accept many of the lots. The quality of the accepted lots will, of course be 0.5% defective in this example, which is much worse that the 0.15% "acceptable" quality level!

Tim F
__________________
To wonder is to begin to understand.
Reply With Quote
  #6  
Old 6th October 2006, 09:09 AM
brutas brutas is offline
Involved - Posts

Registration Date: Sep 2004
Location: Bulgaria
Age: 33
 
Posts: 70
Thanks Given to Others: 9
Thanked 3 Times in 3 Posts
Karma Power: 23
Karma: 35
brutas has less than 100 Karma points so far.
Send a message via ICQ to brutas
Default Re: Linking Acceptable Quality Levels (AQL) and Average Output Quality

Quote:
Originally Posted by Cartier View Post

AQLs for critical product defects (which render the product non-functional) are often defined at 0.15%, which corresponds to 15 parts per ten thousand.
Can anybody explain this to me?
I thought that AQL=0.15% means that your process produces 15 failed devices per 100 units.
Why per 10 000? There is something I am missing...
Reply With Quote
  #7  
Old 6th October 2006, 09:15 AM
Jim Wynne's Avatar
Jim Wynne Jim Wynne is online now
Courtesy Access

Registration Date: Jan 2005
Location: Southeast Wisconsin
Age: 57
 
Posts: 9,211
Thanks Given to Others: 755
Thanked 2,293 Times in 1,547 Posts
Karma Power: 611
Karma: 20380
Jim Wynne is appreciated, and has over 1700 Karma points.Jim Wynne is appreciated, and has over 1700 Karma points.
Jim Wynne is appreciated, and has over 1700 Karma points.Jim Wynne is appreciated, and has over 1700 Karma points.Jim Wynne is appreciated, and has over 1700 Karma points.Jim Wynne is appreciated, and has over 1700 Karma points.Jim Wynne is appreciated, and has over 1700 Karma points.Jim Wynne is appreciated, and has over 1700 Karma points.Jim Wynne is appreciated, and has over 1700 Karma points.Jim Wynne is appreciated, and has over 1700 Karma points.Jim Wynne is appreciated, and has over 1700 Karma points.Jim Wynne is appreciated, and has over 1700 Karma points.Jim Wynne is appreciated, and has over 1700 Karma points.Jim Wynne is appreciated, and has over 1700 Karma points.Jim Wynne is appreciated, and has over 1700 Karma points.
Default Re: Linking Acceptable Quality Levels (AQL) and Average Output Quality

Quote:
Originally Posted by brutas View Post

Can anybody explain this to me?
I thought that AQL=0.15% means that your process produces 15 failed devices per 100 units.
Why per 10 000? There is something I am missing...
You're missing decimal places. 0.15 = 15%, but what's being referred to here is 0.15%. or 15-hundredths of 1%, or .0015.
__________________
Some men are born mediocre, some men achieve mediocrity, and some men have mediocrity thrust upon them.-- Joseph Heller
Reply With Quote
  #8  
Old 21st November 2006, 12:25 AM
thomastang thomastang is offline
Inactive Registered Visitor

Registration Date: Nov 2006
Location: china, shenzhen
 
Posts: 4
Thanks Given to Others: 0
Thanked 0 Times in 0 Posts
Karma Power: 13
Karma: 20
thomastang has less than 100 Karma points so far.
Send a message via MSN to thomastang
Default Re: Linking Acceptable Quality Levels (AQL) and Average Output Quality

from reveiw point of application of Sample Table, it abusolutely exist risk, so we call it "sample" checking.
if apply same AQL in your company and your supplier, whatever, they need agree it.
Reply With Quote
Reply

Lower Navigation Bar
Go Back   The Elsmar Cove Forum > Common Quality Assurance Processes and Tools > Inspection and Test, Sampling and Related Topics > AQL - Acceptable Quality Level

Bookmarks


Visitors Currently Viewing this Thread: 1 (0 Registered Visitors and 1 Unregistered Guests)
 
Thread Tools Search this Thread
Search this Thread:

Advanced Forum Search
Display Modes Rate Thread Content
Rate Thread Content:

Posting Settings
You may not post new threads
You may not post replies
You may not post attachments
You may not edit your posts

BB code is On
Smilies are On
[IMG] code is On
HTML code is Off

Forum Jump

Similar Discussion Threads
Discussion Thread Title Thread Starter Forum Replies Last Post or Poll Vote
Problem with AQL (Acceptable Quality Level) damienbechaux AQL - Acceptable Quality Level 9 5th August 2009 07:04 PM
AQL - How do I find Acceptable Quality Level? qmslady AQL - Acceptable Quality Level 72 8th June 2009 05:07 PM
Acceptable Quality Levels (AQL) - What is the usage of AQL 100 to 1000? WLN AQL - Acceptable Quality Level 10 18th July 2008 07:58 PM
Setting AQL (Acceptable Quality Level) on C=Zero inspections Norman V AQL - Acceptable Quality Level 16 6th December 2006 10:41 AM
AQL - Acceptable (Assured) Quality Level Marc Definitions, Acronyms, Abbreviations and Interpretations 0 29th December 2005 02:44 AM



The time now is 10:22 AM. All times are GMT -4.
The time zone can be changed in your UserCP --> Options.



   

All Y'All Come Back Now, Y' Hear?

Made With A Mac! FreeBSD OS Powered by Apache!
Using php4 Forums provided and maintained by Marc Smith Database by MySQL

FAIR USE and CORRECTNESS NOTICE: This site contains copyrighted material the use of which has not always been specifically authorized by the copyright owner. We are making such material available in our efforts to advance understanding of environmental, political, human rights, economic, democracy, scientific, and social justice issues, etc. We believe herein constitutes a 'fair use' of any such copyrighted material as provided for in section 107 of the US Copyright Law. In accordance with Title 17 U.S.C. Section 107, the material on this site is distributed without profit to those who have expressed a prior interest in receiving the included information for research and educational purposes. For more information go to: http://www.law.cornell.edu/uscode/17/ If you wish to use copyrighted material from this site for purposes of your own that go beyond 'fair use', you must obtain permission from the copyright owner. In addition, I do not guarantee the correctness of the content. The risk of using content from the Elsmar Cove web site and forums remains with the user/visitor.

Responsibility Statement: Each person is responsible for anything they post in the Elsmar Cove forum. Neither I, Marc Timothy Smith, nor any of the forum Moderators, are responsible for the content of posts people make. Liability for post content resides with the poster as does interpretation and/or acceptance and/or use of advice by the reader.

Complaints: If you have a complaint with a post in a forum discussion thread, including Content in general, fighting, flaming, copyright infringement, defamation and/or 'slander', please use the 'Report This Post Report This Post Button button which appears at the top of every post in every thread.

Site courtesy of:
Marc Timothy Smith - Cayman Business Systems, 8466 Lesourdsville-West Chester Road, West Chester, Ohio 45069-1929 - USA
(513) 341-6272

To contact me, click the Google Voice link below, enter Your Name and Your Phone Number and Google will ring your phone and connect you for free!

The Elsmar Cove Web Site is *CopyFree*
no new posts