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24th August 2004, 10:16 AM
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An Early 'Cover'
Registration Date: Mar 2002
Location: East Coast US
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Quote:
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In Reply to Parent Post by Wes Bucey
The reason I use the term "souless" is precisely because the gatekeeper, whether human or computer software, has no personal stake in whether any particular candidate ever gets hired. The gatekeeper is employed to say "no" and not "yes."
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Wes,
Your employment agency stories are, well, sad -- but I believe them. The job world can be quite cutthroat which I have seen and experienced firsthand. But a newbie reading your posts might wonder if it is ever possible to get a job without first getting a degree in job hunting. Not all "gatekeepers" are soulless, unfeeling people with no stake in the hiring process. Often they are HR people whose job is to get the resumes of qualified people in front of the boss so the positions can be filled as quickly and efficiently as possible. If this person can't get good people in front of the boss, and get positions filled, he/she will be replaced, so I think they often do have a stake in the process.
I guess I'm saying that I know getting hired isn't always easy or fair , but I also know it isn't always as difficult as you are portraying. The Bell curve still applies. JMO.
__________________
Mike S. ("Gun Nut")
And they ask me why I drink....
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26th August 2004, 03:36 PM
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Quality Manager
Registration Date: Sep 2003
Location: Illinois
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Posts: 10,422
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Thanked 2,608 Times in 1,703 Posts
Karma Power: 1121
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Job hunting is a job!
A lot of folks have a problem assimilating the fact that every job has skill sets that make the job easier once mastered. The kind of skill sets are different for every job, even some jobs that may seem superficially alike (taxi driving and long-haul trucking, for example.)
In both jobs, of course, you need good driving skills. The taxi driver may need more interpersonal skills to coax larger tips out of passengers. Taxi driver may need to know more alternate routes and traffic patterns by time of day in order to get from point to point quicker to satisfy customers. Long-haul drivers have to get used to being away from home and the loneliness of driving when the driving partner is sleeping in the back of the cab. Long hours fighting off highway hypnosis can be very scary the first time your wheels hit the rumble strip on the shoulder and you shout, " How the HE** did that happen?"
Similarly, job hunting is a job with certain skill sets that make the job easier once mastered.
Here's a brief list of the skill sets I know about. Can you add more? Are you adept in all of them? - Finding or creating job openings which meet your experience and ability
- Attracting the attention of the hiring person to consider your candidacy
- Writing effective cover letters and resumes tailored to the target employer to enhance your chance of being selected for an interview
- Finding and coaching references who will boost your candidacy when contacted by potential employer
- Interviewing well
- Negotiating a good pay and benefits package when considering a job offer
- Overcoming "seller's remorse" when everything about the new job is not what you envisioned
- Overcoming "buyer's remorse" on the part of the employer when he thinks you aren't everything he bargained for
- Adapting to the different company culture when you arrive at the new job.
- Preparing to negotiate a good exit package if, despite everything, the new job doesn't work out.
What is on this list that surprises you? What's missing?
There is currently another thread running about resumes. Which do you think is more important in getting you an interview: - a good cover letter?
- a good resume?
__________________
"Few minds wear out; more rust out"
Inscribed over the entrance of Louis Pasteur School, Chicago
Christian Nestell Bovee (1820-1904) in Thoughts, Feelings and Fancies, 1857
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26th August 2004, 04:04 PM
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Enginerd
Registration Date: Jan 2004
Location: Canada
Age: 33
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Quote:
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In Reply to Parent Post by Wes Bucey
Which do you think is more important in getting you an interview: - a good cover letter?
- a good resume?
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Cover letter, hands-down. They're not going to see your resume if they don't get past the letter.
-R.
__________________
-Rachel
"Why should I be the one to change my name? He's the one who sucks!"
-Michael Bolton, Office Space
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26th August 2004, 04:33 PM
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Quality Manager
Registration Date: Sep 2003
Location: Illinois
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Posts: 10,422
Thanks Given to Others: 450
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Quote:
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In Reply to Parent Post by Rachel
Cover letter, hands-down. They're not going to see your resume if they don't get past the letter.
-R.
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Would it surprise anyone to know that many gatekeepers (especially electronic ones) only scan the resumes and never read the cover letters? Note the use of the word " optional" after cover letter.
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In Reply to Parent Post by Greentree
Resume Processing provides automatic extraction and data loading of key items from emailed and scanned resumes, routing, emailing, and faxing of resumes, flexible 'fuzzysearching' of complete resume text, and storage and retrieval of resume text, cover letter (optional), and image (if scanned). Resumes may be entered into the Greentree Employment System either through email, text or Microsoft Word documents, an outsourced scanning agency or through ScanStation.
With Greentree Resume Processing you can:- Analyze and load resumes with a single click
- Process emailed and remotely scanned resumes in one consolidated workstation
- Process resumes received from outsourced scanning services
- Manage multiple Inboxes easily
- Process text and Word email attachments
- Capture source information automatically for each Inbox
- Automatically link to your Greentree Employment System for thesaurus-driven resume analysis
- View resume text and image at any point in the process for easy tracking and resolution
- Use with POP3 or MAPI compliant email
- Easy to use Windows 95/98/NT/2000 interface
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Contrary to candidate intuition, gatekeepers "know" that 90% of cover letters don't include as many of the buzz words they are keyed to look for as do resumes. Ergo, why waste time scanning a cover letter?
For the applicant: on the off chance the cover letter WILL be scanned, make sure you include a lot of the buzz words applicable to the position (usually variations on buzz words contained in the job listing.)
More reason to 'leapfrog" the gatekeeper, isn't it?
Who uses the software the most?
My research seems to point to employment agencies as the first big user because they seek and sort so many resumes for different positions. Next big user would be major companies with centralized HR recruiters who recruit and do preliminary screening for all locations. Least likely: small business or free-standing division that does its own hiring.
One of my mentees likened the scanning process to the "old way" some search engines used to work to decide which website to put first in a search.
__________________
"Few minds wear out; more rust out"
Inscribed over the entrance of Louis Pasteur School, Chicago
Christian Nestell Bovee (1820-1904) in Thoughts, Feelings and Fancies, 1857
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30th August 2004, 02:33 AM
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Quality Manager
Registration Date: Sep 2003
Location: Illinois
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Posts: 10,422
Thanks Given to Others: 450
Thanked 2,608 Times in 1,703 Posts
Karma Power: 1121
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Targeted resume
Part of the "secret" of getting past the gatekeeper is making sure ALL the buzzwords contained in the job listing are also included in your resume. This ultimately means you should spend some time editing your standard resume to "spin" it or "slant" it to make you one of the most, if not THE MOST, appealing candidate on paper so you will be called for an interview.
Here's a question to consider:
Do you have a trusted friend (spouse works, too) who reviews your resume so that it makes sense to both Quality folk and non-Quality folk?
The are countless surveys which report poor typography, poor spelling, and poor grammar are major knockout factors in companies that screen a lot of resumes.
Here's my additional tip. Have the friend read both the job listing and the resume. Have him/her mark the points of congruence and of disparity. Edit content until you reduce or eliminate the points of disparity. Time enough to deal with disparities after you get the interview, then you can present them as "enhancements" rather than let them trigger the knockout bell at the gatekeeper.
Coming this week:
Dealing with blind ads!
__________________
"Few minds wear out; more rust out"
Inscribed over the entrance of Louis Pasteur School, Chicago
Christian Nestell Bovee (1820-1904) in Thoughts, Feelings and Fancies, 1857
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30th August 2004, 06:17 PM
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Quality Manager
Registration Date: Sep 2003
Location: Illinois
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Posts: 10,422
Thanks Given to Others: 450
Thanked 2,608 Times in 1,703 Posts
Karma Power: 1121
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Does it go without saying you should get a private, personal email address for job hunting, NOT your current employer's email?
There was an article today in a newsletter that some HR folk were surprised at the number of resumes they were getting from folks using current employer's faxes and emails to transmit. One HR guy said, - "Don't they realize the sending fax often automatically imprints the company name and department on every outgoing fax?"
- "Don't they realize company IT administrators can read ALL email to and from company email addresses?"
- "Don't they realize prospective employers will take a dim view of folks who jobhunt on current employer's time and pocketbook?"
So, if you are a prospective employer, what's your view of a candidate who uses johndoe (at) abccorp.com (current employer) as a return email address?
__________________
"Few minds wear out; more rust out"
Inscribed over the entrance of Louis Pasteur School, Chicago
Christian Nestell Bovee (1820-1904) in Thoughts, Feelings and Fancies, 1857
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31st August 2004, 10:33 AM
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An Early 'Cover'
Registration Date: Mar 2002
Location: East Coast US
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Posts: 1,819
Thanks Given to Others: 28
Thanked 73 Times in 53 Posts
Karma Power: 230
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Quote:
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In Reply to Parent Post by Wes Bucey
So, if you are a prospective employer, what's your view of a candidate who uses johndoe (at) abccorp.com (current employer) as a return email address?
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Unless it is done with the employer's permission (due to impending layoff, downsizing, plant closing, job elimination, etc.) I'd day a "dim view" would be about right! If that were the case, I'd be sure to note it in my correspondence.
__________________
Mike S. ("Gun Nut")
And they ask me why I drink....
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31st August 2004, 11:23 AM
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Quality Manager
Registration Date: Sep 2003
Location: Illinois
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Posts: 10,422
Thanks Given to Others: 450
Thanked 2,608 Times in 1,703 Posts
Karma Power: 1121
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Quote:
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In Reply to Parent Post by Mike S.
Unless it is done with the employer's permission (due to impending layoff, downsizing, plant closing, job elimination, etc.) I'd day a "dim view" would be about right! If that were the case, I'd be sure to note it in my correspondence.
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Even then, wouldn't it be better to have a "bulletproof" email address to have continuity once the current employer's "benefit" runs out? Often the job search outlasts the "outplacement facility" granted by the soon-to-be-ex-employer.
While we have raised the concept of " outplacement," does anyone have a view on the difference (if any) between a "job coach" OR an "employment adviser" OR "employment agent"?
A fellow I respected while he was alive once sent me a list of "characteristics" for being a "career coach." I'd be interested in your comments.
Quote:
The 15 Style Points
Hallmarks of the Certified Coach
The StylePoints
...one of 5 components of the Certified Coach Coaching Process
clarifiers | proficiencies | deliverables | frameworks | stylepoints
1. Hears what is actually said.
Points off for misinterpreting, filtering, reframing.
2. Responds cleanly.
Points off for adding positive spin, responding to something that wasn't said, irrelevant comments, pouncing with a solution, trying too hard.
3. Takes client's concerns seriously.
Points off for being dismissive, not getting seriousness of situation, invalidating.
4. Speaks simply.
Points off for being long winded, long stories, convolution, repeating self.
5. Is light and neutral.
Points off for being heavy, significant, charged, flat.
6. Is collaborative.
Points off for lecturing, pushes for change, being 'on,' peppering with questions, pushes point of view/agenda.
7. Communicates in full-duplex mode.
Points off for not being to speak and listen at the same time.
8. Fully expresses.
Points off for holding back, not being themselves, tries to coach 'correctly.'
9. Keeps up.
Points of for falling behind, backtracking, missing a shift the client has just made.
10. Hears between the lines.
Points off for missing dissonance, subtleties, hints.
11. Uses commonly understood words.
Points off for jargon or technical terms unfamiliar to the client.
12. Is self-assured.
Points off for meekness, timidity, bravado, arrogance.
13. Is client-centric.
Points off for self-referencing, competing for attention.
14. Is comfortable with problems.
Points off for rushing to fix, pointing mostly to the bright side, trying to make the client feel better, positive spinning, providing medicants.
15. Is "with" the client.
Points off for being distracted, preparing for response, thinking too hard.
Total score (max 75)
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__________________
"Few minds wear out; more rust out"
Inscribed over the entrance of Louis Pasteur School, Chicago
Christian Nestell Bovee (1820-1904) in Thoughts, Feelings and Fancies, 1857
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