Placed in the position of implementing ISO 9001:2000 but have no formal training

[Lead assessor]

In Reply to Parent Post by Jennifer Kirley

I invite anyone to dispute me, but the ISO registration purpose is to acknowlege compliance of systems; not accounts, designs, customer contracts, specific test data or any other proprietary/sensitive data. A system can be shown to be functioning without compromising critically confidential aspects or data.

An auditor should ask to follow a process from start to finish, but is generally compelled to respect the client's wishes to exclude certain processes if they are deemed secret.

What little is asked for in order to verify the system's functioning, is held in strictest confidence by the registrar's binding code of ethics. It should not be difficult to find out which registrar has a good reputation among your industry peers.

Dear Hokieman,
Another reference book that I strongly recommend for good reading to understand the ISO 9001:2000 standards is a booked called "ISO 9000:2000 Quality Systems Handbook", 4th edition by David Hoyle. ISBN number 0750644516.

Should you require any assistance, I will be more than happy to assist you. I am a ISO 9001:2000, ISO 9004:2000 lead assessor. You and aneone else can email me your questions on dscicluna@ptl.com.mt

Thanks and best regards

[hokieman]

Thanks to everyone for their input , and to you Govind for the advice . This is the first time I have used the forum and found it to be a great tool! I have learned already that there are quite a few people in my same situation and some very well educated people out there to help. The Management here is basically scared to death of ISO. We have very strict security agreements in effect with 3 of our biggest customers on the commercial side. These three customers are competitors and none of them know that we do work for the other two. The security agreements do not prohibit this. The security agreements do say however, that we cannot let anyone outside the company see, touch, look at a print, see an order or anything else. I have explained to the top level that the Auditors are bonded, and confidentiality is a prime consideration. He will not buy into it at all! "These customers will not be jeopardized in any fashion"(That is a quote by the way) . These three customer account for about 75% of our commercial/industrial business. One of our biggest defense customers has mandated a compliance by EOY 2005 or they will have to resort to another vendor. We have a very good quality base to work with. Our machining work and capabilities are second to none in this part of the country. We hold extremely tight tolerances(millionths). Nothing leaves here unless it is right. Our mgmt is very loyal to satisfying the needs of our customers and their quality requirements. So....versus my previous employer, this is refreshing but also presents many hurdles to cross in order to be registered .

[Underdog]

In Reply to Parent Post by hokieman

in the position of implementing ISO 9001:2000..... register only a part of our business. That being aerospace/defense. 75% of our commercial business is highly competitive and is protected by security agreements....

Why do you have to be ISO9000? Are your customers (the 25% aerospace/defense) imposing it on you.

If not, you have options, if so contact some third party auditors and ask them how they would handle the security issues. Put the burden on them to assure you.

Or, are your customers (the 75%) imposing it on you. If so, then their eyes are open and the burden is still on the third party auditors to provide assurances.

[WALLACE]

Hokieman,
I empathize with your situation yet, I have less sympathy with your situation, if you were made aware of the genesis of your dilemma and have just went with the flow.
All too often we hear this situation at the Cove and, whilst many at the Cove are willing to give a leg up, it's clear that some are either, coerced or unwittingly believe they are up for the challenge of adopting, adapting and implementing an international standard for BMS.
I have to ask, why in the first place, has your employer loaded you with this task? It's very clear from the offset that your senior management have decided to adopt and adapt the ISO9001 for all the wrong reasons.
Hokieman, start off the way you wish to proceed, if you don't, you'll be placing yourself in an embarrassingly unprofessional position.
Talk to your senior management and ask (Demand) for a training commitment regarding your knowledge base re- ISO and Business management systems.
Build your systems knowledge on the right foundation of sound processes and you'll do OK.
Good luck.
Wallace.

[hokieman]

Our business, while not in any formal fashion, is percieved to be two-sided by mgmt. Those two percieved sides are (1) Commercial/Industrial and (2) Aerospace/Defense. 75% of our business on the commercial side is done with us by 3 major customers. On the defense side, one customer generates 60% of our business. It is hard to walk up to the man that owns the business and tell him it's going to be your way or else. I might be the one getting the "else" Management looks at ISO as something the Defense customers are forcing upon him. While he is very nice and has poured his heart and soul into the business for many years(including 2.5M in capital expenditures this year alone) he looks at it as a smack in the face. His thinking is that our defense customers(who are ISO registered and also a huge employer) sends us orders full of mistakes and loopholes that require verification in most cases. They send us prints without the proper revisions attached etc...He is not seeing it work for them so he very skeptical. He is a very good man and will send me to a lead auditor course before the end of the year He just has not seen an advantage as of yet!. Top mgmt here is a man and his son. He has approx. 15M invested in the business and literally started out with himself. He has an uncanny business savvy ! He is just set in his ways!

[qualitygoddess - 2010]

Welcome to the Cove. I highly recommend an ISO book especially for small business -- ISO 9001:2000 for Small and Medium Businesses by Herbert Monnich. It's a really easy read. And I was an "ISO pro" when I picked it up from ASQ press.

You should be able to contact your local chapter of ASQ (ww.asq.org) and get a list of local offerings for ISO 9001 classes. You might want to go to two types of classes -- a one-two day overview, and then an internal auditor course (there are ones that are just a couple of days and teach you basic auditing and then there is the 5 day lead auditor course). Or you could try some of the on-line webinars/seminars from ASQ. These on-line classes give you the quick overview and would get you ready for the more rigorous week long lead auditor course.

Another source for help is your local Manufacturing Extension Partnership (MEP). It's funded by NIST. Here's the website for Virgina. http://www.vpmep.org/

My only piece of advice regarding going to a class: ask who is teaching it, and ask for references or feedback on that particular instructor. I don't want to offend anyone, but many of these classes are taught by experienced auditors, but these same people are not the best trainers/facilitators! For example, I once sat through a class where the instructor told all kinds of interesting audit stories, and we didn't do the practice exercises. Everyone suffered when it was time to take the exam...........



Good luck, keep posting your questions.

--Jodi

[Caster]

I'll suggest a zero cost training idea.

Just read, read, read, the ISO standard itself.

Then search this site when you need ideas.

For example, when you wonder what to do about "training effectiveness" you will find at least a dozen good ideas that you can develop your own ideas from.

A search of this site makes you an expert - thanks to Marc and the Covers!

I have been reading the standard since 1987 and still find new ideas and interpretations.

Also as has been suggested, to reduce frustration you need to go on an all out Guerrilla Campaign to convert the boss to ISO benefits.

You say he has uncanny business sense. Once he gets over the fact that this is being forced down his throat he may start to discover all kinds of good ideas.

It is in your best interst to help him with this journey of discovery.

Send HIM to ISO awareness

Insist that he be involved in a gap analysis to see where his business could be improved

Seek out your State quality award group and ask them to set up a CEO to CEO breakfast. If he talks to a passionate CEO who can demonstrate benefits it will be a cake walk from then

Every time a problem costs him money, show him the ISO clause that would <possibly> have prevented the mistake

Do not do it yourself. Insist on a steering committe meeting weekly led by HIM and all top managers. Bring awarenss training to them. Make them do a gap analysis. Make them write procedures and take ownership.

Chances are this won't happen. No worries, you can still develop a World Class system based on the ideas in the Cove. Whether people follow it and whether it is effective is up to HIM at the end of the day. But try real hard to sell him. It is all good stuff.

[hokieman]

Thanks to everybody! I'm reading all of the posts with the greatest of interest so keep'em coming!!!