Placed in the position of implementing ISO 9001:2000 but have no formal training

[Bill Pflanz]

In Reply to Parent Post by hokieman

Management looks at ISO as something the Defense customers are forcing upon him. While he is very nice and has poured his heart and soul into the business for many years(including 2.5M in capital expenditures this year alone) he looks at it as a smack in the face. His thinking is that our defense customers(who are ISO registered and also a huge employer) sends us orders full of mistakes and loopholes that require verification in most cases.

Hokieman,

Although your customers may not have a solid ISO system in place, I would recommend that you give their quality manager a call and ask if you can visit them to see their quality system. They want you to get certified so they should be willing to show you how they did it. At least you will see what is in their quality and procedure manuals, how they addressed certain ISO issues etc. Normally quality managers are willing to help each other.

It will also give you and opportunity to look at what they have written in their policies and procedures about what they expect from their suppliers. There appears to be a gap between you and your customers and you can use the ISO effort to close it. That alone may help sell the ISO concept to management if you are successful.

Bill Pflanz

[mshell]

The best advice that I can offer is to keep visiting the cove and learning from the experienced people that offer advice/assistance.

Somewhere in one of the posts is a list of free ISO training materials. It would help to get you started but you should definitely attend some sort of ISO training course as soon as possible.

Above all, remember that this is your system and you should keep it simple. ISO is business common sense!!!

I have a book called The Memory Jogger 9000/2000 which is a pocket guide to implementing ISO. I have found it to be very helpful. The website is http://www.goalqpc.com

[Ingeniero1]

Hokieman,

I attended a two-day course (QAI's for internal auditors) read a book (BSI's "The Route to Registration") and yes, they were somewhat helpful.

Then, I found 'the Cove'

At the risk of sounding like a broken record*, I will say reading the topics posted in 'the Cove', and posting the questions I had, was, without a doubt, the most helpful by a very wide margin. I can't remember how many questions I asked, but I know it was several dozen. The knowledgeable and wonderful contributors here answered them promptly, graciously, and correctly. Along the way, in addition to the answers, they also provided valuable advice.

The result was than in less than a year, our company (about 85 employees), went from making the decision to register, starting from scratch (no manual, no procedures...) to registration with no major or minor non-conformances.

Alex

*Remember 'records'? Grooved vinyl discs with music encoded in the grooves, which when scratched would cause the needle to jump back and reply the same portion over and over?

[Carl Keller]

I would agree you need some amount of training to be comfortable with ISO, HOWEVER

DO NOT spend too much money on it! A basic course will suffice. Try your local ASQ section. Most of the courses are overrated anyway. You just need a comfort level.

You are obviously an intelligent person. You can read and interpret the ISO standard just as easily as anyone else. Read the standard and ask yourself this question for each element: "what evidence do I have to show that we meet this requirement?" If you have documentation for it, move on. If not, work it into your system.

I have two suggestions concerning your confidentiality dilemmma.

1. Have sample orders and data prepared ahead of time that have been "censored" blacked out names/addresses/critical info but showing enough data to prove you are performing according to procedure.

2. Show the forms with "mock" information and explain in detail how each section is completed.

If you need help, call or e-mail me, I will be more than happy to help.

It really isn't that big of a deal, you are going to pass as long as you pay the registrars bill, so RELAX.

Carl-

[WALLACE]

Here you go Hokieman.
http://www.autotrain.org/
Wallace.

[Lead assessor]

In Reply to Parent Post by Carl Keller

I would agree you need some amount of training to be comfortable with ISO, HOWEVER

DO NOT spend too much money on it! A basic course will suffice. Try your local ASQ section. Most of the courses are overrated anyway. You just need a comfort level.

You are obviously an intelligent person. You can read and interpret the ISO standard just as easily as anyone else. Read the standard and ask yourself this question for each element: "what evidence do I have to show that we meet this requirement?" If you have documentation for it, move on. If not, work it into your system.

I have two suggestions concerning your confidentiality dilemmma.

1. Have sample orders and data prepared ahead of time that have been "censored" blacked out names/addresses/critical info but showing enough data to prove you are performing according to procedure.

2. Show the forms with "mock" information and explain in detail how each section is completed.

If you need help, call or e-mail me, I will be more than happy to help.

It really isn't that big of a deal, you are going to pass as long as you pay the registrars bill, so RELAX.

Carl-

Carl,
I completely disagree with your last sentence. Bribing / just paying the registrars bill will not GARANTEE that you will pass. If any requirements are not addressed (lack of evidance) against a standard, Client mangers / lead assessor will identify this as a major non conformity. Now please explain to me how a report leading to certification with a MAJOR NON CONFORMITY issue the ISO certification!!!!

Awaiting for your comments

[pawel.lang]

I doubt if it is so easy to avoid auditors curiosity. Once during visit in one the aero-business factories i was ment not to look at details of aeroplane (while you can easly do that on airport)... for some people it might be difficult to explain (mainly for those unfamiliar with ISO audits).

[Ingeniero1]

Sometime ago I wondered how many companies do not 'pass'; i.e., achieve certification, in the first audit; and how many do not attain it at all, regardless of the reason. I knew that these had happened, albeit not frequently, but many here thought that it was unheard of. I don't believe we were ever able to get any hard data regarding how many apply, are audited, and pass or fail.

Now we have two statements that parallel this topic.

Opening statement: "It really isn't that big of a deal, you are going to pass as long as you pay the registrars bill, so RELAX."

Response statement: "I completely disagree with your last sentence (meaning, the above 'opening' statement). Bribing / just paying the registrars bill will not GARANTEE that you will pass..."

Which again begs the questions:
If you pay, do you pass; and if not, how often has failing occurred?

Alex